At risk of getting the goats of some friends of mine who read the list, I'm tending to agree with Tim's ideas here. Brief conversation with Jim Bidzos at the cypunx mtg indicated that he is very much up for something along the lines of a personal encryption product that would meet our needs. From a business perspective it's easy to see why RSA haven't gone for this yet; a copmany needs to concentrate at first on the most likely profitable lines of operation, and once that's solid, go for the wider market. Right now we have an incredible array of crypto talent which can be brought into a cooperative arrangement in developing additional RSA products. The result may turn out to be as good as the best potentials of PGP, and at the same time, support for RSA's position vis-a-vis any possible govt attempt to go after the patents. I don't see this as a matter of withdrawing support from the people and efforts which brought forth PGP. They're going to have their hands full doing *something* about Clipper right now, and that will deserve a lot of support. PGP has fulfilled its promise in many ways. It pre-empted the chance of an early govt ban on private crypto. It stimulated wide interest in crypto. It also provided a great market demonstration for the potential of an affordable strong personal encryption program. By this time, Jim Bidzos has a great case to make to his stockholders, for the business potential of personal cryptography. And PGP also brought together a wide community of cryptologists and programmers and end-users and so on. Consider a band who release a record on an underground label, which then makes it onto college radio in a big way, and the band gets a chance to get major distribution from that. They'd be dumb not to, as long as they can keep their artistic autonomy; and a smart record company executive knows that it's better not to try to tamper with a Good Thing. So here we are at the next step; public keys for the masses have the chance to come aboveground in a big way, and achieve even wider distribution and use. Now if those carrots aren't tasty enough; consider the stick: there is a long history of the govt doing in its adversaries by divide-&-conquer, along the lines of getting all kinds of infighting going among people who would be logical allies. Read the history of COINTELPRO for many examples. A major rift between PGP and RSA folks will only serve the interests of those who would rather both systems be banned. On the other hand, increased cooperation builds strength against possible governmental action in the future. -gg