Re: Singers jailed for lyrics
At 07:48 PM 12/26/03 -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Then I guess you better start liberating the world.
If I were a neocon asshole, I would. Instead, I regard liberation as a local task, and interfering with sovereignty as the initiation of force, ie an act of war.
Nice... So in the US you have :
- Walmart which censors music to make it "clean". - Blockbuster who edits movies (or has in the past, not sure if they still do) - TV Stations who edit movies - Censors at TV stations who "watch" over the programming. - What about the FCC who restricts what can be aired?
You need to be clear: only governments can censor. Walmart etc can do whatever they want. That's what private property means. You don't have a right to put your bumper sticker on my car (compelled speech, see the 1st), or prohibit me from putting my sticker on my car. (I just drove 400 miles in a car with the US flag upside down and "Fucked" written over it. Its a magnetic sticker I remove when I travel with my pharmaceutical of choice.) TV stations which exploit the aetherial commons are a tricky case. The government licensors have to be very careful not to induce censorship.
Fuck censors dead.
I agree.
Well, ok then :-)
-- On 30 Dec 2003 at 17:56, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
If I were a neocon asshole, I would. Instead, I regard liberation as a local task, and interfering with sovereignty as the initiation of force,
Interfering with sovereignty is not an initiation of force. The ruler has no property right in his subjects or his rule. We are entitled to help our allies against our enemies, an activity that generally interferes with "sovereignty" While liberation is a task that can only be performed by locals, killing enemies is a global mission. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 8NX/bTVzuEkjsnNDyd8hqD2L1efqNO6qcsqMzWac 4qYCUwCX6Jq61h11ZMgyonG84VSxmT4ogVW1g0OTQ
Major Variola (ret) wrote:
TV stations which exploit the aetherial commons are a tricky case.
The government licensors have to be very careful not to induce censorship.
Yet, the FCC has guidelines what can and cannot be aired. Thus no free speech as you claim it to be. Michael
At 05:56 PM 12/30/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 07:48 PM 12/26/03 -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Then I guess you better start liberating the world.
If I were a neocon asshole, I would. Instead, I regard liberation as a local task, and interfering with sovereignty as the initiation of force, ie an act of war.
Well, clearly bombing and invading them was an initiation of force, in the most literal sense--we shot first. But while I can see that individuals have a right that you violate by initiating force against them, I don't see how that can apply to governments, especially governments whose main method of keeping power involves terrorizing their citizens. Did the Iraqi government have a right to stay in power, or at least not to be invaded? Where did that right come from? From the rights of its people, most of whom apparently didn't have a hell of a lot good to say about it? (That doesn't mean they like *us*, of course.) In the most morally neutral case, this is like one criminal gang attacking another. If the Sopprano family invades the Bozini family's turf, takes over their protection rackets, and hunts down their godfather, it could be messy, and it really will be an initiation of force in the most literal sense. But is this the same kind of "initiation of force" that we normally talk about when, say, a mugger knocks me over the head and takes my laptop and wallet? (And of course, it's not that morally neutral. It's more like a bunch of vigilantes from the neighborhood next door getting rid of the gang running your neighborhood, for reasons of their own, but probably to your benefit.) None of this means it made any sense for us to invade Iraq, or that we did it mainly to liberate oppressed Iraqi citizens. But I think using the same kind of language for interactions between individuals and between governments is a mistake. --John Kelsey, kelsey.j@ix.netcom.com PGP: FA48 3237 9AD5 30AC EEDD BBC8 2A80 6948 4CAA F259
participants (4)
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James A. Donald -
John Kelsey -
Major Variola (ret) -
Michael Kalus