Tim May wrote:
I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition, etc. Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial).
The cost is higher, though, especially the cost of figuring out what you are doing. You are mostly out from under the footprint. For example, it's much more difficult for the Feds to illegally tap your phone in, say, Russia. Also, it will be harder for them to do their thing without tipping you off. The Feds have to use a certain amount of discretion when operating in other countries. When Ames was meeting his Russian handlers in Colombia, the FBI tried to catch him at it, but blew it because they were there illegally and had to exercise caution. Many countries are getting sensitive to violations of their sovereignty by the U.S., so there may be governments which would not cooperate readily, especially if they like your presence for, say, business reasons. Other countries may also not be locked into the same technophobic paranoid hysteria which seems to be gripping the folks in Washington these days. Somebody sending a lot of encrypted mail may seem pretty harmless in a more relaxed part of the world. While it's too bad that there isn't a single Libertarian government out there, other countries may still have uses. Two risky investments is a better deal than one big investment with the same risk.
Tim May wrote:
I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition, etc. Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial).
The cost is higher, though, especially the cost of figuring out what you are doing. You are mostly out from under the footprint. For example, it's much more difficult for the Feds to illegally tap your phone in, say, Russia. Also, it will be harder for them to do their thing without tipping you off.
Um. What about the Russians tapping your phone? Once outside the borders of the US, your jurisdictional problems multiply, not only do you have to worry (at least a little bit) about the USG, you have to worry about the G of your host country. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Petro wrote:
Um.
What about the Russians tapping your phone?
As an aside, headlines from Mexico have been interesting lately. *she fumbles around* Here's one. http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/world/docs/mexico08.htm (political wiretapping ring) ~Aimee
At 2:37 AM +0200 7/11/01, Anonymous wrote:
Tim May wrote:
I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition, etc. Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial).
The cost is higher, though, especially the cost of figuring out what you are doing. You are mostly out from under the footprint. For example, it's much more difficult for the Feds to illegally tap your phone in, say, Russia. Also, it will be harder for them to do their thing without tipping you off.
This begs the question: _which_ "Feds"? While it may be harder for America's Feds to tap phones in Russia (but don't count on this being true for long), the successors to the KGB and GRU are very active. Russia even has draconian laws against crypto use which America was unable to pass. In any case, it's absurd to think one would move to Russia to escape the problems of the U.S.
The Feds have to use a certain amount of discretion when operating in other countries. When Ames was meeting his Russian handlers in Colombia, the FBI tried to catch him at it, but blew it because they were there illegally and had to exercise caution.
Ames and Hanssen were textbook cases in "old school" thinking. They literally used the old kind of dead drops: messages left in Coke cans left at the base of oak trees in parks, chalk marks on mailboxes. Jeesh.
While it's too bad that there isn't a single Libertarian government out there, other countries may still have uses. Two risky investments is a better deal than one big investment with the same risk.
Whatever. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
participants (4)
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Aimee Farr -
Anonymous -
petro -
Tim May