On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Tom Vogt wrote:

here's the rundown:

- a time ======== my current plan says: Friday, 29th. September 2000 that is close enough to actually happen, and still long enough to allow for planning and travel arrangements. if anyone wants to come, but can't on that specific date, please yell NOW and make an alternative suggestion.

sounds ok. has anyone heard what happened to the RSA patent expiration party on sept 20, that was supposed to take place in amsterdam btw ?

- a place ========= since the number of participants is a total variable, that's a difficult part. I'm currently looking for some kind of cafe or other place with both indoors and outdoors seats/tables that's large enough, has an acceptable atmosphere and is otherwise suitable.

hmm.. we're still talking about hamburg here, right ? you're right in so far as since this is the first european cypherpunk meeting one can have absolutely no idea how many people will be showing. depending on how well announced the meeting is i'd guess > 50 people however (maybe the bay area people can give us a rough count on how much people are showing to an averge meeting there and we can try to extrapolate something from that - cultural difference nonwithstanding :)... there were physical meetings in non-west-coast places as well, dunno remember where however. the numbers for those should be a little bit more of a benchmark/pointer to us). A cafe sounds like a good idea, we might try meeting at a mall, on a public place or somewhere else however.

- an agenda =========== there should be at least a rough outline and a topic or two. if anyone wants to speak about a specific topic, tell me.

still thinking about that. i have a couple of topics in mind. will post to the list after further re-consideration. let's get things kicking! cheers, -ralf -- Ralf-P. Weinmann <rpw@uni.de> PGP fingerprint: 2048/46C772078ACB58DEF6EBF8030CBF1724

At 2:19 PM +0200 9/4/00, Tom Vogt wrote:

- a place ========= since the number of participants is a total variable, that's a difficult part. I'm currently looking for some kind of cafe or other place with both indoors and outdoors seats/tables that's large enough, has an acceptable atmosphere and is otherwise suitable.

- an agenda =========== there should be at least a rough outline and a topic or two. if anyone wants to speak about a specific topic, tell me.

First, good luck on your meeting. Second, here's my experience with informal Cypherpunks physical meetings: * we in the Bay Area have had numerous informal gatherings at coffee shops, outdoor seating areas, other public areas (a la '2600"). And this is with an attendance sometimes reaching 50. (Which, in my crotchety opinion, is too high. Attendance over about 20 tends to make the event a lecture rather than a gathering.) * agendas are seldom needed. We got by in the first, and most interesting, few years of the Cypherpunks will little or no agenda in advance. We sat around a table or on the floor and we talked. Sometimes someone got up and went to a blackboard, if available, and drew pictures. * too much of a formal agenda tends to encourage "guest speakers," which, in my view, is _not_ a good idea. Sometimes a notable guest speaker is a good idea, but usually the result is that someone not part of the culture talks about what his or her company or organization is doing...things which are readily discoverable from Web sources. * and don't be afraid to discuss politics and political implications of technologies. Again, this used to be more common in the early days of the Bay Area Cypherpunks meetings. (As time passed, as meetings grew larger, politics just about vanished completely. Perhaps this is too harsh an assessment, but I believe the Bay Area Cypherpunks meetings in the past few years have just become the place for twentysomething geeks to show up to talk to others and to check out job prospects. Almost _none_ of the 50 or so attendees at a typical Saturday gathering are participants in the Cypherpunks list, tellingly.) Bigger is not always better. In conclusion, I encourage you to just "hang loose." ("lose sein") --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.