No, no. AP is funny because it's impracticeable. One does not find an assassin exclusively by tracing who paid him to kill. One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm >>reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already.
Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
The point is that Bell's theory does a really good job of sorting out the business end of assassination,...<
Oh THATS funny.I get it. HAHAHA!
Killing one person, especially a public official, pisses a whole bunch of people off. Those people have a tendency to come find their buddy's killer.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.(you just contradicted yrself btw.) Oh,unless you mean the torture/french village reprisal thang.Win friends and influence people. The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.Pop songs,video games.DoCoMo assasinphones. Someone like a torturer,murderer,terrorist,pedophile is a logical candidate.(stephen roach?)Sometimes these happen to be public officials.Theres one here where I live named dennis Tanner.(vic.au) Those killers by remote control like arbusto might be be made more accountable. What better way than...Bell's theory, "a really good job of sorting out the business end of assassination"according to you. KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
No kind of real or threatened assassination can weaken a government in which a majority of the governed people >believe. It can only make it seem more righteous and be more strong.
Thats true,roll over and go back to sleep,if you live under that govt you have nothing to worry about. More righteous and more smug.
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right (I'm willing to stipulate that it's Wrong), it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
I'm inserting attributions and reformatting cited text, since you seem incapable of quoting in a legible manner. I'm also only replying to the parts of this that particularly amuse me. You should be aware that I'm not taking you seriously. Ordinarily, I wouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored. On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:36:41PM +1100, mattd wrote:
[gr wrote:]
One can (and often does) find him because he makes a mistake in the act of commiting the crime. Which, if I'm reading my history right, is what's hampered the noisy proponents of AP up to this point already. Crime? Wot crime,guvnor? Jim and CJ were not 'noisy'.imo. Im a bit noisy cos Im pushing the 'let it all hang out' version.
Jim Bell was arrested for, charged with, and convicted of crossing US state lines with the intent to threaten a federal official, a felony in this country. Felony == crime. Carl Johnson was similarly convicted of threatening a federal official, still a felony in the US. Regardless of what you think of the laws involved, these two broke them according to the legal system under which they chose to operate, which is, by definition, crime. Bully for you that you live (or claim to live) in Australia under a different legal system. The point here is that Bell, Johnson, and you have all made yourselves prime suspects if any public official (especially one in the US) is killed in a way that can be linked to assassination politics, and the still-rather-powerful executive branch of the US government is likely to come looking for you (and Bell and Johnson, if they're not incarcerated at that point) if someone should be, and likely to charge you with incitement to murder. It doesn't matter whether or not this is Right, it is the reality of the situation. The crypto and electronic currency ideas used in assassination politics are kind of neat as a thought experiment, but the execution (no pun intended) has, thus far, fallen extremely short. Unless you know something I don't and would care to share it.
Mmm,where do we start,lets get some firebrands and go up to the proffrs? Look at sites with no logs for quad anon 'predictors' who may be overseas briefly visiting cybercafes,Good luck china.
My point is that knowing who was paid to kill someone is not the only way to find out that the assassin performed the assassination. The assassin can easily be (and often is) caught in the act. The assassin can fail (and, for bonus points, also be caught). There are plenty of examples of assassination attempts for which there is no monetary paper trail in which the assassin has been caught. (Let's see, in US history off the top of my head: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John W. Hinckley Jr.) The issue of getting caught is totally orthogonal to the monetary paper trail; they intersect if a LEA uses the monetary paper trail to catch the assassin, but that's not the only way to catch him. Getting caught, though, must be a concern equal to, if not greater than, compensation to an assassin interested in getting paid for assassination (since he can't get paid if he gets caught or, at least, it won't do him much good in prison).
(you just contradicted yrself btw.)
How so?
The one person killed will have had to have done a lot of evil shit to get enough pooled (presumably) to tempt a seasoned pro.
I think you've watched Grosse Pointe Blank five too many times. How many seasoned professional killers do you really imagine are running around in the US these days? No, really, I want to know what you think.
Unless some professional killer turns all altruistic,stranger things have happened.The killer could be suicidal.another possibility.Lots of scenarios possible here,movie scripts,even.
Hrm. That kind of counteracts the utility of Bell's system of remuneration for assassination, doesn't it? If the assassin would have done it for free (or, at least, cheap) and is willing to die trying, why would he bother with all the crypto flim-flam? Sure, maybe having a list of "recommended targets" would be helpful for all those civil-liberty-loving suicidal assassins out there just searching for a suitably morally devoid victim, but there's not much need for an organization to hold predictions in escrow then, now is there?
KILL THE PRESIDENT! "Id buy that for a dollar!"
Really, I don't see what you've got against W. He's actually just a harmless twit, another Ronald Reagan. You really ought to be more interested in his cabinet, starting with (my former governor, who managed to lose an election to a dead man) Ashcroft. They're the real assholes. But you'd have a hard time knowing that considering you don't even live in the country whose public figures you're so interested in having assassinated. Cheers mattd, apologies to the unamused on cypherpunks... -- gabriel rosenkoetter gr@eclipsed.net
participants (2)
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gabriel rosenkoetter
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mattd