china-taiwan and limits of state action
Recently a friend asked me what my opinion was as a "computer guy" about the China-Taiwan "cyber warfare." At first it seemed that there wasn't much to say, except maybe to point out that this seems to be a ways away from Schwartau's info-war. One thing has started to bother me a bit, though. How does mainland China distinguish an attack by the Taiwanese state from an attack launched by private Taiwainese citizens? Do they even *care*, since they have such poor relations with Taiwan anyway? What happens if Taiwan's government says it wants to normalize relations with China (and vice versa), but the attacks continue? Will they have to find and punish their own citizens in order for the normalization to move forward? Where do treaty obligations compel a state to prosecute citizens for behavior which it may have tacitly encouraged before? Interestingly enough, an attack where the originator is identified seems to be more of a problem. At least with an anonymous attack, a state can plausibly deny that one of its citizens was involved. In fact, you could see identified attacks on Chinese systems coming to be a form of civil disobedience if Taiwan were to go this route. (I don't think Taiwan will - I'm just interested in this interplay between private action and the state's responsibility.) Suppose Taiwan proves unwilling or unable to stop private citizens from attacking mainland Chinese systems. Now there seems to be a parallel with situations where states are considered either supportive of terrorism or too incompetent to prevent terrorist activity. Israel occupied southern Lebanon because it didn't see any other way to prevent terrorist activity. The alleged use of Libya and Sudan as "training grounds" could be viewed as a kind of jurisdictional arbitrage, and a kind which has been reacted against violently in the past. Fear of an analogous situation online seems to be behind the "world cyber-crime treaty" mentioned here recently. Now bringing it closer to home, does that mean opposition to the world cyber crime treaty could be cast as "support for cyber-terrorism"? -David
Recently a friend asked me what my opinion was as a "computer guy" about the China-Taiwan "cyber warfare." At first it seemed that there wasn't much to say, except maybe to point out that this seems to be a ways away from Schwartau's info-war.
One thing has started to bother me a bit, though. How does mainland China distinguish an attack by the Taiwanese state from an attack launched by private Taiwainese citizens? Do they even *care*, since they have such poor relations with Taiwan anyway?
Given the nature of China's society and government, I don't think they'd even understand the question you are asking. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ********************************************** "Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal authority, I keep imagining its competence." John Perry Barlow
I think the attacks are far more likely to be launched by the Mainland folks against the Taiwanese rather than the other way around. The mainlanders want to destabilize Taiwan. Taiwan likes a stable mainland, because so many Taiwanese companies have set up manufacturing facilities in the mainland to exploit the cheap labor. Most if not all of the PC infrastructure companies do the bulk of their manufacturing and or assembly in the mainland because labor is so cheap. It is not in in the business interest of Taiwan to destabilize the mainland. On the other hand, the mainland wants Taiwan to re-join them, so if they can weaken them they feel they are more likely to be successful. rdc petro wrote:
Recently a friend asked me what my opinion was as a "computer guy" about the China-Taiwan "cyber warfare." At first it seemed that there wasn't much to say, except maybe to point out that this seems to be a ways away from Schwartau's info-war.
One thing has started to bother me a bit, though. How does mainland China distinguish an attack by the Taiwanese state from an attack launched by private Taiwainese citizens? Do they even *care*, since they have such poor relations with Taiwan anyway?
Given the nature of China's society and government, I don't think they'd even understand the question you are asking.
-- A quote from Petro's Archives: ********************************************** "Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal authority, I keep imagining its competence." John Perry Barlow
On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Richard Crisp wrote:
I think the attacks are far more likely to be launched by the Mainland folks against the Taiwanese rather than the other way around. The mainlanders want to destabilize Taiwan. Taiwan likes a stable mainland, because so many
What intrigues me about this conflict is that it seems possible for ordinary citizens to have the same kind of access to attack that the state does. So speaking of "the mainlanders" or "Taiwan likes" may be misplaced. Of course, most private citizens won't be able to do much with it, but there may be some who will. I agree with you with respect to the mainland and Taiwanese governments, though. -David
participants (3)
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dmolnar -
petro -
Richard Crisp