Re: kuro5hin.org || How Home-Schooling Harms the Nation
David Honig <honig@sprynet.com> :
At 09:13 AM 8/29/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
I've been reading the cover article in Time magazine about home schooling, and it makes me wonder. One of the primary questions the article poses is this: "Home schooling may turn out better students, but does it create better citizens?" Also present is the accusation that home schooling threatens the current public education system:
"Home schooling is a social threat to public education," says Chris Lubienski, who teaches at Iowa State University's college of education. "It is taking some of the most affluent and articulate parents out of the system. These are the parents who know how to get things done with administrators."
I think he's probably wrong here - I would guess that the most affluent and articulate parents send their kids to private schools because they're too busy keeping the lifestyle financed to run a school or realize that they would probably suck at it. If I win the Lotto I'll consider it. I'll risk $1 today.
Funny that, a State employee putting home education down.
Funny that, the only people I've ever met who were home schooling their kids were fundamentalist christians who objected to all kinds of perceived immorality and wrong teaching like sex ed and evolution. In my estimation they were poorly equipped to give their children a good education. I have no doubt that there are many exceptions to what I've seen but those who will do a really fine job of educating their children are probably in the minority of homeschoolers.
In any case, the notion that parents should sacrifice their children for the good of society is abhorrent.
You mean like when we send young males to war so the ones who stay home will have less competition? Keep an open mind about the home schooling/private schooling vs. public schooling discussion. One facet that I see is that fundamentalists via a strong influence on the republican party are trying to divert public funds to religious organizations. My reading of the 1st is that the state may not establish a religion. Giving money to a religious organization is tantamount to establishment. My reading of the 1st also leads me to the conclusion that the tax-exempt status of the churches is wrong. They should pay their fair share of the fucking property taxes like every other victim. Another facet is that the well-to-do are attempting to remove their funds from the systems so they can use those funds to educate their children as they choose. A voucher system would surely benefit me financially. This is a reasonable desire but it will have a negative effect on the public school systems and a subsequent negative effect on the society as a whole. I know the masses are a bit thick but do you want them to be even thicker? And not all bright people come from priviledged backgrounds. Do you want to limit the opportunities for some of the brightest kids in the country before they've even had a chance? I'm not saying that it (vouchers or other defunding) should be ruled out but you should at least think about the implications a bit. Aimee style question : How many of you were home schooled? How many went to private schools? How many went to public schools? I would guess roughly 1% 9% 90% I wish there were more ( and better ) educational choices and that those choices were reflected reasonably in the financial systems but every proposal I've seen so far sucks moose bladder through a hairy straw. Mike
At 11:01 AM 8/29/01 -0700, mmotyka@lsil.com wrote:
Funny that, a State employee putting home education down.
Funny that, the only people I've ever met who were home schooling their kids were fundamentalist christians who objected to all kinds of perceived immorality and wrong teaching like sex ed and evolution. In my estimation they were poorly equipped to give their children a good education. I have no doubt that there are many exceptions to what I've seen but those who will do a really fine job of educating their children are probably in the minority of homeschoolers.
A number of the top scorers in the academic races they ran this year were home-schooled. *Tell us* about the teaching of natural selection in Kansas' public schools. Ahem. In any case, freedom from compulsion is more important. Its not like public education doesn't include bizarre rituals, (chanting towards flags, uniforms) limited perspectives, and hidden agendas (public schools must encourage registration for the draft by US males). Regardless of the exemplars that you and I have met, its the freedom that matters.
In any case, the notion that parents should sacrifice their children for the good of society is abhorrent.
You mean like when we send young males to war so the ones who stay home will have less competition?
*Exactly like that* I was going to include that in one draft... but thought it distracting... glad you brought it up.
One facet that I see is that fundamentalists via a strong influence on the republican party are trying to divert public funds to religious organizations.
Fundies are a scourge when they open their mouths, no doubt about it. Ship 'em to Afghanistan and let their gods duke it out.
"Home schooling is a social threat to public education," says Chris Lubienski, who teaches at Iowa State University's college of education. "It is taking some of the most affluent and articulate parents out of the system. These are the parents who know how to get things done with administrators."
While I agree that home schooling is a [very real] threat to public education, I think it is so for an entirely different reason: it shows that there is a real alternative to sending your children into the hell holes that are our public schools. Obviously, having this kind of [extremely attractive] alternative threatens the State Mind Control Centres.
Funny that, the only people I've ever met who were home schooling their kids were fundamentalist christians who objected to all kinds of perceived immorality and wrong teaching like sex ed and evolution. In my
Interesting. I have not known many home-school families, but none of the ones I _have_ known were fundamentalist christians, or for that matter, fundamentalist *anythings*. In fact, the most successful home-schooler I know is a long time cpunks member (although I haven't seen a posting from him in about a year <frowny face>).
My reading of the 1st also leads me to the conclusion that the tax-exempt status of the churches is wrong. They should pay their fair share of the fucking property taxes like every other victim.
Of course they should. But the religious communities are well organized, and present a real threat to government if pushed to the point of acting in unison, so the government has chosen (as do all such schoolyard bullies) to graze in easier pastures. For a modern example of how this works, look into the history of the Church of Scientology.
Another facet is that the well-to-do are attempting to remove their funds from the systems so they can use those funds to educate their children as they choose. A voucher system would surely benefit me financially. This is a reasonable desire but it will have a negative effect on the public school systems and a subsequent negative effect on the society as a whole.
So I must educate my children according to the public good, and not the good of the kids themselves? Fuck you.
I know the masses are a bit thick but do you want them to be even thicker?
To be frank, sending kids to public schools is practically *requiring* that they become "thick", merely in order to _survive_.
I wish there were more ( and better ) educational choices and that those choices were reflected reasonably in the financial systems but every proposal I've seen so far sucks moose bladder through a hairy straw.
While you claim to favor choices, you have just argued that these choices should not be available. Make up your mind.
Mike
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (3)
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David Honig
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measl@mfn.org
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mmotyka@lsil.com