-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Life is a Cabaret, my friends. on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 12:56:02PM -0700, Giovanna Imbesi (pho@tuttomedia.com) wrote:
Last night my friend and I stopped at a Venice club/bar. At the door they were doing the normal ID check, but then took my driver's license and swiped it into a little Palm-like device...and all the info popped up on the screen. I was startled, amused and outraged all at the same time. My friend knows the new owners of the building and told me that the owners had rented part of the upstairs space to a guy with a youth marketing company, also coincidentally a long-time friend of his. What are they doing with this information? I've been wondering what real implications a national ID card would present and here was a clear example of potential abuse. Is this even legal? Aren't they authorized to check date-of-birth but no more? Is it legal to retain the data? What data is stored in the magnetic stripe on a California driver's license - name, address, DOB, license #, and signature?
On the way out I asked if we got our data back but only got a nervous laugh in reply.
G.
Giovanna Imbesi TuttoMedia http://www.tuttomedia.com 310-399-2800 gio@tuttomedia.com
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- -- Karsten M. Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com> http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Home of the brave http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ Land of the free Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE70dnAOEeIn1XyubARArMaAJ95uo4KZfqqkWj/RD8adX3PN1Z/vACfa9xA rLjWNMMw6+UefXhnRwN8x60= =tBCH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 12:56:02PM -0700, Giovanna Imbesi (pho@tuttomedia.com) wrote:
Last night my friend and I stopped at a Venice club/bar. At the door they were doing the normal ID check, but then took my driver's license and swiped it into a little Palm-like device...and all the info popped up on the screen.
Venice Italy or Calif (etc.)? Never mind -I saw the 310, so I'll ignore your Italian name. Amerika. You mean the magstripe on your license still carries information? Give that man a magnet. Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
Is this even legal?
You chose to give them your bits. They could ask for a thumbprint too, or AIDS test result, or DNA sample. Big deal. If you don't want to play their game, go away. Having signed no contract to keep that info private or unexploited, expect some junk mail. Having a copy of someone's info is not fraudulent behavior. There's lots of clubs that don't probe your orifices so much. Aren't they
authorized to check date-of-birth but no more?
They aren't authorized to do anything. They have to make sure they don't sell ethanol to those the govt deems unfit or the govt shuts them down with force. How they verify this is up to them, as is the risk.
You mean the magstripe on your license still carries information? Give that man a magnet.
There's an even simpler alternative: Sure, CA licenses may have this mag strip, but the format is not universal throughout the world, or even the US. Carry your passport, which doesn't have a mag strip (last time I checked). Carry a foreign drivers license. Do you know how easy it is to get a drvers license in some foreign countries? They should be valid ID for a bar in California. Next time I'm in some unknown little third world country I will make a point of picking up an official government-issued id. "Yes, Mr. Bouncer, this is my government-issued photo ID. Yes, Tajikistan is very cold this time of year." As for legality of it, it may be legal but it's a sleazy thing to do. I'm sure we are going to see more of this. Larry Ellison may not get his exact dream to come true, but there will certainly be real-time ID verification databases with good net connections, so the teller at the bank will be able to swipe your ID and see your photo come up on his screen. This makes forging an ID essentially impossible, unless you can also hack into the DB in some way.
Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
Do all states even have magstrips?
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
Do all states even have magstrips?
You know, I never even realized until right now that my DL has a mag strip. This is a new thing for WI, I think. Pretty sure my recent MN didn't have one. I guess the more interesting thing would be, before wiping it out, to figure out a way to read it. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 hseaver@cybershamanix.com http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
You know, I never even realized until right now that my DL has a mag strip. This is a new thing for WI, I think. Pretty sure my recent MN didn't have one. I guess the more interesting thing would be, before wiping it out, to figure out a way to read it.
I'm sure you can buy card readers that will read it, but I'm equally sure you won't find anything sinister on it. From what I understand, all they put on the back is a machine-readable version of the text that's on the front. Nothing mysterious. Sooner or later the strips will be replaced with some kind of tamper-resistant smart chips, and then we will have a much harder time knowing what's on the chip. What's disgusting about Larry is that he wants to impose this on everyone but himself. When he checks into a hotel, do you think he whips out the Larry credit card and drivers license? No, of course not. He has an assistant who checks in for him. He is completely anonymous in this case. When he gets on a commercial plane, does he have to show id and have his bags searched and remove all metal objects? No, of course not because he doesn't fly on commercial planes. I'm sure that the actual number of times Larry has to show ID or use his personal credit card per year are pretty close to zero. Compare that to the average American, who will have to show Larry-ID(tm) every time he does any kind of financial transaction, travels anywhere, goes to a bar, goes to the gym, goes to a library, rents a movie, signs up with an ISP, or anything.
At 10:52 PM 10/20/2001 +0000, Dr. Evil wrote:
You know, I never even realized until right now that my DL has a mag strip. This is a new thing for WI, I think. Pretty sure my recent MN didn't have one. I guess the more interesting thing would be, before wiping it
out,
to figure out a way to read it.
I'm sure you can buy card readers that will read it, but I'm equally sure you won't find anything sinister on it. From what I understand, all they put on the back is a machine-readable version of the text that's on the front. Nothing mysterious.
Sooner or later the strips will be replaced with some kind of tamper-resistant smart chips, and then we will have a much harder time knowing what's on the chip.
It creates new opportunities for portable EMP "writers" steve
Sooner or later the strips will be replaced with some kind of tamper-resistant smart chips, and then we will have a much harder time knowing what's on the chip.
Only when microwave ovens are outlawed. :-)
Hey, it's easy to destroy something, much harder to read from it. Also, this chip will need to communicate with other devices all the time so if your chip is munched, the card will be pretty useless. Coming soon to a country near you!
on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 05:48:44PM -0500, Harmon Seaver (hseaver@cybershamanix.com) wrote:
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
Do all states even have magstrips?
You know, I never even realized until right now that my DL has a mag strip. This is a new thing for WI, I think. Pretty sure my recent MN didn't have one. I guess the more interesting thing would be, before wiping it out, to figure out a way to read it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=drivers+license+magnetic+stripe California, Maryland, New York, Ohio, Texas, and Wisconsin, notably. See also: http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/13.18.html [From California SB 1447, 1992, the "Privacy Act of 1992"] SECTION 2: INFORMATION OBTAINED FROM DRIVER'S LICENSES This section requires the written consent of a consumer for a business entity to (1) sell information obtained from the consumer's driver's license or (2) use such information to advertise goods or services. The section is intended to cover instances where a consumer presents a driver's license or identification card for identification purposes during a business transaction. The section is not intended to prevent businesses from using driver's license information for business record-keeping, or for other purposes related to the transaction (i.e. authorizing a transaction). The section is not intended to change existing law with respect to the ability of businesses to obtain driver's license information from other sources (such as DMV records). The need for this section is heightened by the new "magstripe" drivers license developed by the Department of Motor Vehicles. This license has a magnetic stripe on the back which contains much of the information on the front of the license. The stripe will enable a business entity to store information contained on a driver's license simply by scanning the card through a reader. A publication by the Department of Motor Vehicles dated May 1991 ("Department of Motor Vehicles Magnetic Stripe Drivers License/Identification Card") states that "using point of sale (POS) readers and printers, the business community can electronically record the DL [driver's license] /ID number on receipts and business records." The publication notes that "magnetic stripe readers are readily available, relatively low in cost, and are already available in many retail outlets." However, a merchant might access much more than the driver's license/ID number; the publication notes that "readers have been produced, and market available readers can be modified that will read the three tracks of information contained on the California card." According to the publication, the tracks contain information such as license type, name, address, sex, hair-color, eye-color, height, weight, restrictions, issue date. Peace. -- Karsten M. Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com> http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Home of the brave http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ Land of the free Free Dmitry! Boycott Adobe! Repeal the DMCA! http://www.freesklyarov.org Geek for Hire http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Hmm, seems my DL is already out of date. WI is switching to a new form of barcode: http://www.dot.state.wi.us/dmv/digital.html
License back contains information and new 2-D bar code
The fee paid for the product is indicated on the top of the card. The two-dimensional bar code on the back of the document is coded with information from the front side of the card. The 2-D Bar Code is more durable and secure than the previously used magnetic stripe. The anatomical Gift Statement is covered with a special ink-permeable plastic which allows customers to write on this portion of the card.
Looks like other states are doing the same thing. So much for erasing the mag strip. But I suppose it would be fairly easy to paint something over the barcode like some plastic disolving solvent, making it unreadable. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 hseaver@cybershamanix.com http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Harmon Seaver wrote:
Hmm, seems my DL is already out of date. WI is switching to a new form of barcode:
<<< 2-D barcode >>>
Looks like other states are doing the same thing. So much for erasing the mag strip. But I suppose it would be fairly easy to paint something over the barcode like some plastic disolving solvent, making it unreadable.
NYS has had these for years. (State motto: always leading in police technology.) My DL's barcode suffered just the sort of mishap you describe---solvent over the plastic, discoloring it and making it unscannable. I've caught a lot of crap from pigs who try to scan it into the little boxes in their oinkmobiles, but no official censure or fine has come down. YMMV. SRF -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel 617-670-3793 "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." -- Plato
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Looks like other states are doing the same thing. So much for erasing the mag strip. But I suppose it would be fairly easy to paint something over the barcode like some plastic disolving solvent, making it unreadable.
Defacing a state DL is a felony in most places. You could get away with a shrug of the shoulders if the mag stripe was bad. The same can't be said of a barcode buried behind platic. -- ____________________________________________________________________ The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion. Edmund Burke (1784) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Choate wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Looks like other states are doing the same thing. So much for erasing the mag strip. But I suppose it would be fairly easy to paint something over the barcode like some plastic disolving solvent, making it unreadable.
Defacing a state DL is a felony in most places. You could get away with a shrug of the shoulders if the mag stripe was bad. The same can't be said of a barcode buried behind platic.
Jim, I'm going to have to call bullshit on that. A few minutes' checking (google and the revised code pages of a handful of states) shows that defacing a DL generally seems to be a violation, not even a misdemeanor. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel 617-670-3793 "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." -- Plato
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Steve Furlong wrote:
Jim, I'm going to have to call bullshit on that. A few minutes' checking (google and the revised code pages of a handful of states) shows that defacing a DL generally seems to be a violation, not even a misdemeanor.
Then you didn't look very hard at all. Look into the 'fake license' laws for your state, they include defacing such as replacing the photograph and such. That will also include the mag stripe and the bar code. You can go to jail for several years for defacing a license. In Texas it's illegal to photocopy it except for official or business purposes. -- ____________________________________________________________________ The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion. Edmund Burke (1784) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, one of these would be handy. http://www.eltroncards.com/printers/p520.htm -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 hseaver@cybershamanix.com http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Harmon Seaver wrote:
Hmm, one of these would be handy. http://www.eltroncards.com/printers/p520.htm
Yah, but it comes with only Windows drivers! No prices given, either. That's a bad sign. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel 617-670-3793 "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." -- Plato
According to the MI state page, MI has a a "strict" law limiting what the mag stripe and barcode can contain, only the DL #, DOB, and expiration date. http://www.sos.state.mi.us/drlic/sos-365.html -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 hseaver@cybershamanix.com http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
On Saturday, October 20, 2001, at 05:59 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote:
According to the MI state page, MI has a a "strict" law limiting what the mag stripe and barcode can contain, only the DL #, DOB, and expiration date. http://www.sos.state.mi.us/drlic/sos-365.html
Much like the "strict" law limiting what SS cards could be used for: "For Social Security and tax purposes only. Not for identification." (Or very similar to this. It's printed on my 1969 SS card, which I still have.) I've had government agencies demand my SS number. One time I showed the clerk my card, with my SS number covered by my thumb. She just gave me her government employee blank look and said she would not be able to complete my paperwork without my SS number. Such will it be with Larry Ellison's Oraclecard. I just hope that, being Jewish, he gets picked up for extermination early on. It's often the fucking Jews--Feinstein, Feingold, Lieberman, Ellison--who slavishly imitate the Nazis. How ironic to see Larry Ellison pushing the "Papers, please, macht schnell!" Orwellian nightmare. And it will be "voluntary" only for the first couple of years (when the focus is on the schwarzes). Every store will use it (those which don't, like political bookstores and gun stores, will be classified as s.1510 terrorist-facilitating businesses). --Tim May "The great object is that every man be armed and everyone who is able may have a gun." --Patrick Henry "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." --Alexander Hamilton
It's often the fucking Jews--Feinstein, Feingold, Lieberman, Ellison--who slavishly imitate the Nazis. How ironic to see Larry Ellison pushing the "Papers, please, macht schnell!" Orwellian nightmare.
That is a good observation, and something which I'll never understand. How can they want to recreate the conditions that lead to their families being killed just a couple of generations ago? How could a Jew possibly support gun control?
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
It's often the fucking Jews--Feinstein, Feingold, Lieberman, Ellison--who slavishly imitate the Nazis. How ironic to see Larry Ellison pushing the "Papers, please, macht schnell!" Orwellian nightmare.
That is a good observation, and something which I'll never understand. How can they want to recreate the conditions that lead to their families being killed just a couple of generations ago? How could a Jew possibly support gun control?
1. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to be dumbasses. 2. They think they'll be in charge this time. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel 617-670-3793 "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." -- Plato
On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 02:04 PM, Steve Furlong wrote:
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
It's often the fucking Jews--Feinstein, Feingold, Lieberman, Ellison--who slavishly imitate the Nazis. How ironic to see Larry Ellison pushing the "Papers, please, macht schnell!" Orwellian nightmare.
That is a good observation, and something which I'll never understand. How can they want to recreate the conditions that lead to their families being killed just a couple of generations ago? How could a Jew possibly support gun control?
1. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to be dumbasses.
2. They think they'll be in charge this time.
America's Jews who are in politics are the new "trustys" (or is it "trustees"?). They are like the Jews who helped load the furnaces with other Jews. They hoped for better treatment by the camp managers. Often they were sent to the furnaces when their usefulness was over...with new trustys doing the dirty work. Something in the Jew makes him a sucker for following orders. Feinstein, Schumer, Lieberman, all of the despicable Jews pushing police state measures...they hope that if they lick Big Brother's boot they'll be safe. --Tim May "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship." --Alexander Fraser Tyler
Tim May wrote:
On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 02:04 PM, Steve Furlong wrote:
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
It's often the fucking Jews--Feinstein, Feingold, Lieberman, Ellison--who slavishly imitate the Nazis. How ironic to see Larry Ellison pushing the "Papers, please, macht schnell!" Orwellian nightmare.
That is a good observation, and something which I'll never understand. How can they want to recreate the conditions that lead to their families being killed just a couple of generations ago? How could a Jew possibly support gun control?
1. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to be dumbasses.
2. They think they'll be in charge this time.
America's Jews who are in politics are the new "trustys" (or is it "trustees"?).
...
Feinstein, Schumer, Lieberman, all of the despicable Jews pushing police state measures...they hope that if they lick Big Brother's boot they'll be safe.
"Trustees". I disagree. Feinstein et al aren't cooperating with Big Brother in hopes of better treatment. They _are_ Big Brother. But I don't think this is because they are Jews. There are statists of every religion. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel 617-670-3793 "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." -- Plato
On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 11:02:03PM -0400, Steve Furlong wrote:
I disagree. Feinstein et al aren't cooperating with Big Brother in hopes of better treatment. They _are_ Big Brother.
If any U.S. politician qualifies for that title, two high-profile senators and a man who came closer than anyone else in history to being vice president certainly would. -Declan
At 08:00 PM 10/22/01 -0000, Dr. Evil wrote:
It's often the fucking Jews--Feinstein, Feingold, Lieberman, Ellison--who slavishly imitate the Nazis. How ironic to see Larry Ellison pushing the "Papers, please, macht schnell!" Orwellian nightmare.
That is a good observation, and something which I'll never understand. How can they want to recreate the conditions that lead to their families being killed just a couple of generations ago? How could a Jew possibly support gun control?
Trust the State more than the People. ---- People who are willing to rely on the government to keep them safe are pretty much standing on Darwin's mat, pounding on the door, screaming, "Take me, take me!"--Cael in A.S.R. "Love work, hate domination, and do not let your name come to the attention of the ruling powers." -Talmud/Sayings of the Fathers Never lose your life preserver -JPFO.ORG
That is a good observation, and something which I'll never understand. How can they want to recreate the conditions that lead to their families being killed just a couple of generations ago? How could a Jew possibly support gun control?
Trust the State more than the People.
What they don't understand is that the State _is_ people. They're people, some of whom are good, some are bad, some are smart, some are dumb, most are just ordinary people but a very tiny number are smart, competent and truly evil. On the whole, the people who are in the Government of the US are not much different from the rest of the people in the US. I just can't understand why someone would want someone else to have power of life and death over him. In life I have learned that the only person who I can absolutely rely on to look after my interests is me. Isn't this obvious? Nevermind, of course it's obvious, but it's also scary ("you mean, I have to be ready to defend myself?").
At 04:13 PM 10/20/01 -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
[From California SB 1447, 1992, the "Privacy Act of 1992"]
SECTION 2: INFORMATION OBTAINED FROM DRIVER'S LICENSES
This section requires the written consent of a consumer for a business entity to (1) sell information obtained from the consumer's driver's license or (2) use such information to advertise goods or services.
Thanks for the research. Too bad its practically unenforcable, how would you know *which* of the places leaked?
At 05:48 PM 10/20/01 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
Do all states even have magstrips?
You know, I never even realized until right now that my DL has a mag strip.
And you call yourself a cpunk? This is a new thing for WI, I think. Pretty sure my recent MN didn't
have one. I guess the more interesting thing would be, before wiping it out, to figure out a way to read it.
You are redeemed. Newer Kalif. licenses have an optical bar code too. Maybe worth looking at, but you might need magnification, like a big fresnel lens, and you should use direct sunlight too.
On 20 Oct 2001, Dr. Evil wrote:
Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
I believe they are all using ABA encoding. Of course, I could also be wrong :-)
Do all states even have magstrips?
Again, I may be wrong, but IIRC, there is now n active effort to standardize the physical properties of licenses. Not long ago, we had such a diversity of formas that it was impossible to detect real from fake. For example, until recently, the New York license was literally a piece of paper (with no photo!), and the New Mexico license was the size of the _insert_ you would normally see on a laminated card. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
As much as I hate to reply to my own post, it was just (correctly) pointed out to me that 15 years ago does not qualify as "not long ago" to most people. Whoops. On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 measl@mfn.org wrote:
Not long ago, we had such a diversity of formas that it was impossible to detect real from fake. For example, until recently, the New York license was literally a piece of paper (with no photo!),
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
On 20 Oct 2001, at 22:09, Dr. Evil wrote:
Carry your passport, which doesn't have a mag strip (last time I checked).
My US passport does have a magstrip. It's embedded in the front cover, and must be read by a special device. I've seen it scanned only once, when leaving Montreal to return home. (point being, a driver's licence reader can't read passport magstrips) At least one club in Minneapolis has a prominent sign stating they will not accept a US passport as ID unless it's accompanied by a "yellow slip", that being the document indicating that the person has applied for a state-issued ID card. I've never taken the time to ask the reasoning behind this policy.
Do different states use different formats for the data on the magstrip?
Do all states even have magstrips?
It's probably reasonable to assume the formats differ. I haven't yet had the time to build up a magstripe reader and check mine, but Minnesota also puts a high-density barcode on the front of the license. I have read that out, and it's name, address, DOB, licence class, a couple of fields I can't figure out and a final field that says "20 EXTRA BYTES HERE". (yes, really) -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy@scytale.com DNRC Minister Plenipotentiary of All Things Confusing, Software Division PGP Key 0x1AF39331 : 71D5 2EA2 4C27 D569 D96B BD40 D926 C05E Key available from pubkey@scytale.com I charge to process unsolicited commercial email
On Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 01:01:43PM -0500, Roy M. Silvernail wrote: | On 20 Oct 2001, at 22:09, Dr. Evil wrote: | | > Carry your passport, which doesn't have a mag strip | > (last time I checked). | | My US passport does have a magstrip. It's embedded in the front | cover, and must be read by a special device. I've seen it scanned | only once, when leaving Montreal to return home. (point being, a | driver's licence reader can't read passport magstrips) Really? My fairly new passport has some OCR-128 stuff on the front cover. Could that have been what was scanned? | At least one club in Minneapolis has a prominent sign stating they | will not accept a US passport as ID unless it's accompanied by a | "yellow slip", that being the document indicating that the person Speaking for myself, I find this a fairly good way to distinguish between businesses that are focused on giving me value for the money and businesses that are interested in sucking up to the regulators. When expressed like that, my friends have never had a problem going somewhere else and avoiding the spots that won't let me in with a passport or foriegn drivers license. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
On 21 Oct 2001, at 17:45, Adam Shostack wrote:
Really? My fairly new passport has some OCR-128 stuff on the front cover. Could that have been what was scanned?
Pretty sure it's a magstrip. There's a definite bump across the cover, and the reader it was passed through didn't come up far enough to scan the name or other information. -- Roy M. Silvernail [ ] roy@scytale.com DNRC Minister Plenipotentiary of All Things Confusing, Software Division PGP Key 0x1AF39331 : 71D5 2EA2 4C27 D569 D96B BD40 D926 C05E Key available from pubkey@scytale.com I charge to process unsolicited commercial email
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Sat, Oct 20, 2001 at 12:56:02PM -0700, Giovanna Imbesi (pho@tuttomedia.com) wrote:
Last night my friend and I stopped at a Venice club/bar. At the door they were doing the normal ID check, but then took my driver's license and swiped it into a little Palm-like device...and all the info popped up on the screen. I was startled, amused and outraged all at the same time. My friend knows the new owners of the building and told me that the owners had rented part of the upstairs space to a guy with a youth marketing company, also coincidentally a long-time friend of his. What are they doing with this information? I've been wondering what real implications a national ID card would present and here was a clear example of potential abuse. Is this even legal? Aren't they authorized to check date-of-birth but no more? Is it legal to retain the data? What data is stored in the magnetic stripe on a California driver's license - name, address, DOB, license #, and signature?
A friend of mine recently informed me that he has access to a mag-strip reader, and scanned several drivers' licenses (as well as Safeway cards and other random credit-card like items.) Most contained the information displayed on the front of the card, and/or some seemingly random numbers (most likely, the ID numbers.) California DL's have nothing interesting stored in that magstrip that isn't on the front of the card. And no, the signature isn't reflected in the magstrip. -MW-
participants (14)
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Adam Shostack -
David Honig -
Declan McCullagh -
Dr. Evil -
Harmon Seaver -
Jim Choate -
Jim Choate -
Karsten M. Self -
measl＠mfn.org -
Meyer Wolfsheim -
Roy M. Silvernail -
Steve Furlong -
Steve Schear -
Tim May