_________________________________________________________________ FROM THE VIRTUAL DESK OF SANDY SANDFORT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Today, Theodore Ts'o raised the specter of libel and slander to justify some forms of censorship for anonymous remailers. He assumed, rhetorically, that if you believe in total freedom of speech, than you must not believe in libel or slander. He is correct, of course. Nevertheless, his implied conclusion is in error. He would have us give up free speech to uphold libel and slander. I say, let's give up the artificial concepts of libel and slander and uphold our freedom of speech. Can people be harmed by speech? Maybe yes, maybe no. But if so, that is the price that must be paid to avoid a far greater harm. Damnum absque injuria--there are some loses for which there is no remedy at law. If your girlfriend impugns your manhood, there may be harm. But should her speech be ILLEGAL? I think not. I'm sure that what NBC did was NOT libel or slander. It may have been fraud, though. In any event, if a free society chose not to make what NBC did illegal, that in no way implies that NBC was "perfectly justified" in faking an explosion. It just says society takes any remedy out of the hands of the state. Of course, NBC's acts have already damaged its own reputation karma. Serves 'em right, too. One last note about practicality. We live in a world with pay telephones, which anyone may use to threaten anyone else, anonymously. Shall we eliminate pay phones? Today in the United States, a uniformed agent of the government will deliver your anonymous threat to your victims door for only US$0.29. Shall we eliminate the Postal Service? (The answer is "yes," but for other reasons.) So what's the point? Why should we be any harsher on the networks than we are on all the other anonymous channels? There is only one realistic and moral solution to threats of violence. Punish the perpetrators, not the messenger. Even in today's world, crimes are rarely solved by wiretaps, forensic science or any of that. Perps gets fingered by someone they know; perps confess; perps screw up and accidentally give themselves away; or the intended victim blows the perp's head off during an attempt to carry out the threat. Again, punish the perpetrators, not the messengers. S a n d y ssandfort@attmail.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ssandfort@attmail.com Date: 1 Mar 93 02:36:10 GMT There is only one realistic and moral solution to threats of violence. Punish the perpetrators, not the messenger. Even in today's world, crimes are rarely solved by wiretaps, forensic science or any of that. Perps gets fingered by someone they know; perps confess; perps screw up and accidentally give themselves away; or the intended victim blows the perp's head off during an attempt to carry out the threat. Again, punish the perpetrators, not the messengers. I agree 1000%!!!! But in order to punish the perpetrators, it is first necessary to *identify* the perpetrators...... - Ted
One last note about practicality. We live in a world with pay telephones, which anyone may use to threaten anyone else, anonymously. Shall we eliminate pay phones? Today in the United States, a uniformed agent of the government will deliver your anonymous threat to your victims door for only US$0.29. Shall we eliminate the Postal Service?
This is different than anonymous remailers currently. Why? Because pay phones and letters *cost* *money*. So, I have a proposal. Have someone *sell* signed keys, for real money. The only purpose of the signature is so that someone can verify that it's been paid for. It can be bought out of band. For example, I can email the signing agent my public key, and paper-mail a money order with no return address. Maybe in the future, we can just use digital money. When he gets my money, he signs my key and sends it back to me, possibly via some remailer or whatever. Now, when I send a message via a remailer, the mailer checks to see if the message has been signed by a key which has been signed by the key signing agent. If it has been, then it forwards the mail. If not, it doesn't. Now, here's the trick. If too many people complain about a particular sender (see below), the key gets revoked by the signing service. This means flooding newsgroups, slander, etc., *costs* *real* *money*. This is a big encouragement not to abuse the net, because it costs money. Perhaps we even have different levels of signing, based on costs. Pay $1, and the remailers will let you send to alt groups only. Pay $10, and you can send to alt, soc, misc, talk, and some set of high-traffic, low-signal lists. Pay $100, and you can post anywhere, including individuals. These are all example numbers, of course. - People can easily remain pseudonymous. - There is a monetary incentive not to be a bonehead. - Revocation is possible. There's no punishing wrongdoers, but people aren't likely to put much credence behind anonymous claims. - This works like the Real World. People with enough money can create false identites for themselves, anyway. - Remailer owners can choose which signing agents to trust. Other than monetary schemes might be able to be set up. For instance, if you can get five real, trustable people to vouch for your pseudonym, you win. If you screw up, their reputations become tarnished, as well. I guess all this is is a positive reputation scheme, bootstrapped by money, which is more important to some people than reputation, anyway. I mean, someone willing to go through the bother of spending $10 to get his key signed is either very bored, or has to have something to say. Now, back to complaints. What constitutes a complaint? Each certifier would probably have to decide this on their own. Some might choose never to revoke a signature. Some might do it only after some number of complaints. Some might come up with systems of arbitration, with judges, voting, and everything. The remailers can vote with their feet: whichever signing agents match the policies they like, they trust. And recipients (like newsgroups, mailing lists, or even individuals) can choose to accept messages only from remailers they "trust". So, we have a fairly complex system with multiple degrees of freedom, where endusers can pick and choose from among the policies they like best. This is sort of like credit card purchases. Hertz is willing to rent me a car based on Visa's evaluation of my creditworthyness. Similarly, large-public-mailing-list@site.domain can decide to accept messages from a given remailer, based on their published policies. Actually dealing with signatures isn't their problem. It's to the signing agent's advantage to be trustworthy, or else nobody will pay attention to his signatures, and nobody will give him money to sign their keys. Poof, a free market. It isn't simple, but I think one thing we can all agree on is that no solution to these problems we are facing will be both adequate and simple. Marc
participants (3)
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Marc Horowitz
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ssandfortï¼ attmail.com
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Theodore Ts'o