At 10:46 AM 11/4/01 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

Reese wrote:

...

Yet that is how millions of Americans are treated every day, usually because their skin isn't white enough, their bankbook not fat enough. Sound familiar?

All too familiar. That's why it surprises me how avidly Reese embraces that sort of bully-boy tactics.

The time to fight it is after, when there is a tort, not when you are desperate and at their mercy. Oden will not get far, I expect.

...

how simple the analysis of S a n d y is, that he resorts to pathetic ad hominem in an attempt to invalidate the truth of what I have said.

First, I'd already challenged and defeated your "truth."

You said "Yeah, just like all those other rape victims..." except she was not a rape victim, the plunging neckline and miniskirt is not at issue. This is more like stripping all your clothes off for a stroll through the park at 2 AM, as I said in my response.

Second, your are a "misogynistic apologist for the initiation of force."

Why is that in quotes? Where did it come from? Regardless, you are not reading me, you are inferring from me if you believe that. I said she brought it on herself, I did not say she deserved it.

Why are you offended?

Stirring through the responses to me, it strikes me that those of you who have taken issue with me are the ones offended, I'm just calling the situation like I see it.

You seem to embrace that image anyway. Third, you are a hypocrite. Please re-read what you said about the "cunt" in question.

That what she did was dumb and that she brought it on herself? Here is what she said about it all, in her own words, from http://www.wartimeliberty.com/article.pl?sid=01/11/03/1813233 "There was this National Guard guy there. He yells over at me, so everyone can hear, 'Bring your bags over here.' You know how they are when they're all puffed up with themselves. He said, 'Hurry up,' so I slowed down some more. Slowed down some more. "I put my bags on the table. The two women employees were standing there. [I tried to help them with a stuck zipper.] He grabbed my left arm, he started yelling in my face, Interfering with the baggage searchers. I said, 'You can't do that.' He went to grab my arm, and I said, 'Don't touch me.' Lipping off at the security personnel. I saw an older airline guy shake his head, 'No,' and he backed off. The "No" could have meant anything, including she failed the search. "That insulted his little manhood. Her subjective opinion, this interview is filled with it. I heard him say real soft, 'Don't let her on the plane,' like he was talking to himself. We have only her word for this. "Then I go to get on the plane since we're all done and everything, and the American Airlines ticket guy says,' You can't get on the plane.' I say, 'Why not?' ... He says, 'Because this guy says you didn't cooperate with the search.' ... She didn't. "He said, 'Maybe we can get you on the 4:00 plane, He offers. He said, 'Come with me.' I followed very slowly, I sat down for a while. I said I'm carrying these bags; I need a rest... It's called passive resistance. Passive resistance. Resisting. She didn't cooperate with the search or anything else, did she? He went and got six other National Guard guys and they all approached me. Here are these six untrained, ignorant, don't-know-how-to-deal- with-the-public, machine-gun-armed young guys in their camouflage suits with their military gear hanging off of it. "I looked up and started laughing, She laughed. "They had the airport policeman tell me, 'You're not flying out of this airport today.' ... After all the shit, they respond. They wanted to get back at me somehow because I was not a subservient female, because I questioned their manhood. She interprets wrongly, again. "I went to the American Airlines guy and said, 'Is this just today?' He said, 'I don't know.' One clerk said, 'You could drive to Boston [five hours away] and see if you can get out of there.' They still offered to get her to her destination, until she finally pissed them all off. Here is what Wal Sheasby said about it all. Reese <paste> Written by Walt Sheasby on Solidarity List Serv. Who is Walt Sheasby? See, for example: http://www.greeninformation.com/SHEASBYINDEX.htm http://pages.prodigy.net/gmoses/nvusa/gopal.htm http://www.indianagreenparty.org/gmo.mv LEADER OF GREEN SPLINTER GROUP FIBS ABOUT AIRPORT HASSLE In an official press release from its Chicago headquarters, the Greens/Green Party USA, a small splinter group that opposes recognition of the Green Party of the United States as the electoral voice of the movement that ran Ralph Nader for President in 2000, declared that one of its leaders was stopped from boarding a flight after a check turned up her name was on a computer list because the organization opposes the U.S. bombing of Afghanistan. The release said: "Armed government agents grabbed Nancy Oden, Green Party USA coordinating committee member, Thursday at Bangor International Airport in Bangor Maine, as she attempted to board an American Airlines flight to Chicago." "An official told me that my name had been flagged in the computer," a shaken Oden said. "I was targeted because the Green Party USA opposes the bombing of innocent civilians in Afghanistan." The press release was relayed around the nation as a first signal of the reach of the new draconian Patriot Act. But it turns out that Nancy Oden was apparently not barred because of a computer check, but because she did not comply with standard screening for weapons. While who said what is not clear, it appears that her name was not flagged by a computer search of potential terrorists or their supporters, according to a news report in the Bangor Daily News on Nov. 3. http://www.bangornews.com/editorialnews/article.html?ID=44958 While the undue harassment of airline travelers is to be condemned, it does not seem that this incident warrants fears of a major violation of Constitutional guarantees of free speech, as it first appeared. The group that Nancy Oden leads is nevertheless using the incident to draw attention and support to itself. One member of the group's National Council urged: "The first thing to do is to organize a committee, include spokesperson/ spokespersons. Contact civil liberties organizations including the National Lawyers Guild, the ACLU ... Ask organizations to sponsor defense committee- Seek prominent attorney who may need to have a license to practice in Maine- Send releases out every day. Has Ralph Nader been contacted? What about Phil Donahue CONTACT TALK SHOWS. TRY TO GET POLITICIANS TO SUPPORT, Barbara Lee. Organizations in Maine who know Nancy and will back her up." If the incident had taken place as Nancy Oden described it, it would mean that other Green activists and leaders of other anti-war groups would also be on computer lists and barred from flying, which reportedly has not been the case. The exaggeration of her victimization may only serve to discredit opposition to the Bush Administration's attack on civil liberties. It may also further isolate the Green Party USA, which saw a majority of delegates at its July 20 National Convention leave to form a new Green Alliance, which has its first convention in New Orleans January 18-21. </paste>