I was thinking about building medium size WANs based on peer to peer radio links and wonder if such technology exists already? The idea is to have a number of boxes with indoor or outdoor antenna. For example in a city you could have such a box in each flat, in a village in each house. The requirement is that they are far from each other not more that say 200 meters, depending on what our hypothetical wireless technology allows. So far it's quite similiar to what we already have with WLANs. The difference is that the boxes can forward packets for each other, thus allowing distant nodes to communicate via the `router' nodes between them. Many more ideas come to mind here like dynamic routing, access control, traffic policing etc. As for the wireless connection I was thinking about low-power radio broadcast, so you don't need to get license and the big telcos can't sue you as breaking monopolies (still in Poland...). The low-power requirement implies relatively short distance, like 100-200 meters. But that's quite enough with average distance between houses being much smaller in areas where many people live. Do you know technologies like this, existing already? What bandwidth you can get with wireless links based on radio modulation? Thanks for all suggestions. -- Paweł Krawczyk *** home: <http://ceti.pl/~kravietz/> security: <http://ipsec.pl/> *** fidonet: 2:486/23
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:13:51 +0200 Pawel Krawczyk <kravietz@aba.krakow.pl> wrote:
I was thinking about building medium size WANs based on peer to peer radio links and wonder if such technology exists already?
Yes. 802.11b.
The idea is to have a number of boxes with indoor or outdoor antenna. For example in a city you could have such a box in each flat, in a village in each house. The requirement is that they are far from each other not more that say 200 meters, depending on what our hypothetical wireless technology allows. So far it's quite similiar to what we already have with WLANs.
The difference is that the boxes can forward packets for each other, thus allowing distant nodes to communicate via the `router' nodes between them. Many more ideas come to mind here like dynamic routing, access control, traffic policing etc.
Look at what these guys are doing. They even make their software available. http://www.seattlewireless.net/
As for the wireless connection I was thinking about low-power radio broadcast, so you don't need to get license and the big telcos can't sue you as breaking monopolies (still in Poland...). The low-power requirement implies relatively short distance, like 100-200 meters. But that's quite enough with average distance between houses being much smaller in areas where many people live.
Do you know technologies like this, existing already? What bandwidth you can get with wireless links based on radio modulation? Thanks for all suggestions.
802.11b, 11Mb/sec, up to 15 mile range with the right antennae, no licensing costs. Sound good enough?
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Matt Beland wrote:
802.11b, 11Mb/sec, up to 15 mile range with the right antennae, no licensing costs. Sound good enough?
Obviously not. Have you even been reading the news lately? Although fixing the 802.11b protocol might be a good cypherpunkish undertaking (for those who still write code). 802.11c, anyone? It looks like it ought to be pretty simple. Just substitute AES for RC4 and go. The problem as usual is key distribution. Bear
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Dillinger" <bear@sonic.net> To: "Matt Beland" <matt@rearviewmirror.org> Cc: <cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: CDR: Re: peer to peer wireless WAN?
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Matt Beland wrote:
802.11b, 11Mb/sec, up to 15 mile range with the right antennae, no licensing costs. Sound good enough?
Obviously not. Have you even been reading the news lately?
Although fixing the 802.11b protocol might be a good cypherpunkish undertaking (for those who still write code). 802.11c, anyone?
It looks like it ought to be pretty simple. Just substitute AES for RC4 and go. The problem as usual is key distribution.
Bear
Easier solution. Screw the 802.11 security. Run TCP/IP over it and use IPsec. Magically the thing is now reasonably secure, without having to mess around with redesign, just leave everything as is. Joe
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 09 August 2001 13:53, Ray Dillinger wrote:
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Matt Beland wrote:
802.11b, 11Mb/sec, up to 15 mile range with the right antennae, no licensing costs. Sound good enough?
Obviously not. Have you even been reading the news lately?
Yep. There's nothing that needs to be fixed - anyone dumb enough to trust their data to WEP in the first place deserves what they get. Why build encryption into the transport layer? Tunneling is an established, tested technology, one that can be implemented seamlessly, with no need to "fix" anything. - -- Matt Beland matt@rearviewmirror.org http://www.rearviewmirror.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7c/JyBxcVTa6Gy5wRApr8AKC+9PxHcoeQtAGk3zQ9jS1vgMEHAQCgkXre YLdvW7gbbcn30pBiKMO/VCs= =SvqY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
802.11b is just the transport layer, Consume Net people have been recently using Mobile Mesh http://www.mitre.org/tech_transfer/mobilemesh/ rather successfully. -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3
On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Pawel Krawczyk wrote:
I was thinking about building medium size WANs based on peer to peer radio links and wonder if such technology exists already?
http://einstein.ssz.com/hangar18 Ad Hoc Networking Perkins ISBN 0-201-30976-9 -- ____________________________________________________________________ natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (7)
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Eugene Leitl -
Jim Choate -
Joseph Ashwood -
Matt Beland -
Paul Harrison -
Pawel Krawczyk -
Ray Dillinger