On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Jamie Lawrence wrote:

Does anyone know the legal issues surrounding the act of taking a pocket tape recorder and recording at least my side of this sort of transaction?

There's actually two questions implied here: (1) What are the _legal_ implications? The answer will depend on whe the event(s) take place; (2) Realistically, what can you expect? I can't address number 1 directly, but I can address number two from first hand experience. In 1983 I was questioned by a (New York) police officer, who interrupted my quite open and obvious dictation into a hand held microcassette recorder to do it. Since he saw the thing in my hand, and did not ask me to turn it off, I let it run during what was essentially a "Terry Stop". When the Terry stop escalated, and I was ordered to follow the officer for more questioning, I asked him, while holding out the recorder for the answer, whether I was under arrest. Answer: no. Followed by "Am I free to go?". Answer no. "Sir, I believe these two conditions are mutually exclusive: either I am under arrest, or I am free to go. As I have things to do, I need to know which it is, so that I may either go do them, or call my attorney to join us". My reward was a crushed microcassette recorder, a "missing" cassette (he claimed the recorder was both damaged and empty at the time he first encountered it), and an arrest (and conviction no less!). On the way to central booking, he helped himself to my pocket change to pay for the coffee and doughnuts for him and his three buddies (they actually stopped en-route, leaving me cuffed in the car alone for about 20 minutes). So, in a nutshell, expect that the recorder will be "empty", and quite damaged when/if it is ever returned to you (which mine wasn't, even after multiple applications). -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:49:28 +0800 "F. Marc de Piolenc" wrote:

Sounds like we need to be dictating into cellphones, with remote recording!

fishing through wreckage for a crumpled black box recorder seems pretty old fashioned, too.

...

My reward was a crushed microcassette recorder, a "missing" cassette (he claimed the recorder was both damaged and empty at the time he first encountered it), and an arrest (and conviction no less!).

On Thursday, October 18, 2001, at 05:59 PM, measl@mfn.org wrote:

In 1983 I was questioned by a (New York) police officer, who interrupted my quite open and obvious dictation into a hand held microcassette recorder to do it. Since he saw the thing in my hand, and did not ask me to turn it off, I let it run during what was essentially a "Terry Stop".

When the Terry stop escalated, and I was ordered to follow the officer for more questioning, I asked him, while holding out the recorder for the answer, whether I was under arrest. Answer: no. Followed by "Am I free to go?". Answer no. "Sir, I believe these two conditions are mutually exclusive: either I am under arrest, or I am free to go. As I have things to do, I need to know which it is, so that I may either go do them, or call my attorney to join us".

My reward was a crushed microcassette recorder, a "missing" cassette (he claimed the recorder was both damaged and empty at the time he first encountered it), and an arrest (and conviction no less!).

On the way to central booking, he helped himself to my pocket change to pay for the coffee and doughnuts for him and his three buddies (they actually stopped en-route, leaving me cuffed in the car alone for about 20 minutes).

He earned killing. You would be justified in arranging his death, if this really happened. If this really happened and you have not yet taken him out with a good rifle, why not? (I realize you cannot say one way or the other whether you delivered justice to this (alleged) miscreant, but my point remains.) Personally, I doubt your story. Someone who does what you say was done to you has clearly earned killing. --Tim May

Don't do it in Massachusetts. They consider it wiretapping. Most states aren't so funny. But why take it out. Leave it in your pocket (save when clearing the metal detector, of ocurse). DCF At 03:48 PM 10/18/01 -0700, Jamie Lawrence wrote:

Sometime around 02:50 PM 10/18/2001 -0700, Steve Schear opined thusly:

...

http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.citypaper.ne t/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml&back=http://www.newcity.com

Does anyone know the legal issues surrounding the act of taking a pocket tape recorder and recording at least my side of this sort of transaction?

I know what the likely result would be; I wondered if I had any obligation not to record anything I might happen to say while interacting with airport authorities.

-j

At 06:16 AM 10/19/01 -0400, cubic-dog wrote:

Wow!

Ed Abby, rest his ill-tempered soul, would be very proud.

Abbey would be considered the Osama of an Official Terrorist Group, his phone and all his relatives' bugged, his assets seized, and if they could find him, he'd be disappeared.