mdiehl@triton.unm.edu (J. Michael Diehl) writes:

I just started reading the alt.whistleblowing newsgroup. It would seem that

That is strange, I'm not getting anything here. Maybe there is a propagation problem. What is the recommended action in this case? Posting to alt.config, or resending the newgroup message? -- Miron Cuperman <miron@extropia.wimsey.com> | NeXTmail/Mime ok Unix/C++/DSP, consulting/contracting | Public key avail AMIX: MCuperman | Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme.

J. Michael Diehl <mdiehl@triton.unm.edu>

I just started reading the alt.whistleblowing newsgroup. It would seem that it has already digressed into a flamefest. Could the person who created it please post a set of guidelines for the group! Also, people are using their REAL names! Appearantly, they don't know anything about the anon remailers....Could someone post a notice about that, too? Same thing goes WRT pgp. We helped create this group, we ought to help keep it worth reading. ;^)

Mr. Diehl: If you had taken the time to read any significant portion of alt.whistleblowing traffic, I would imagine you would have stumbled on messages where I presented an outline/preliminary FAQ and an anonymous posting described precisely how to use Julf's remailer to send traffic (which were posted under a week ago). I take great offense at your hasty, flippant denigration of it so far as a `flamefest'. While of course I'm not really associated with alt.whistleblowers at all in the grand cyberspatial scheme of things, I feel a smidgeon of personal responsibility for the group. Are you paying attention? Have you seen my promises there and on the cypherpunk list to create the FAQ? So far, IMHO, the traffic has mostly been very high-caliber and even spectacular. A lady named Karen Lofstrom reported how her boss at a Hawaii university misused ~$100,000 in funds and work of public employees on his private company -- from NSA grant money -- starting a long thread of sympathetic responses (she alluded to this earlier on sci.crypt I believe but expanded it beautifully in alt.whistleblower). We have other interesting revelations so far too. There are messages pointing out a private `whistleblowing support organization' and how to contact them. Your message, upon rereading it, makes me extremely exasperated. It reconfirms my suspicion that a large part of traffic on this list and tactics in the Cypherpunk arsenal are to just give lip service to interesting ideas but leave the messy and laborious detail work to others. Despite plenty of great fireworks on this list, I have seen no tangible contributions from others on the whistleblowing project other than Miron Cuperman's gracious effort to create the group (despite grandiose reassurances to the contrary), and Julf's immediate support of it, two individuals who are already highly active and motivated outside of their cypherpunk involvement. Furthermore, I've encountered many extremely frustrating obstructions here. I've seen great accomplishments by individuals who call themselves `cypherpunks' but none by well-orchestrated collections of them. This is not to discourage positive effort in the future by anyone on this list on the whistleblower project or anything else. It is to suggest that the Cypherpunks are so intensely individualistic as to preclude group projects and large-scale cooperation, and that this is a serious obstacle to enacting meaningful, critical change on the agenda. (Go ahead, flame me and ask what I've done for everyone lately --- I won't respond. That is not the spirit of my words.) The statement that makes my blood boil violently is the following:

We helped create this group, we ought to help keep it worth reading. ;^)

How is it that `we' created this group? All I've seen here is voluminous verbiage (yes, mine included). I appreciate the call to arms and cooperation, but I've tried it here before with impoverished, negligible, and excruciatingly painful results. How long ago did you join the list? I've already posted ways for cypherpunks to help out on the whistleblowing newsgroup. The simplest way is to just go there and post something useful or assimilate existing traffic into something useful. Mr. Diehl, the following is not a personal request. On behalf of the hundreds of people who read the cypherpunks list, I humbly ask you (and remind all other cypherpunks) to put the tiniest greater effort into your postings to the mailing list that, like all others, take the time of everyone to sort in their mailbox, and make every effort to direct messages through personal email where appropriate. I've asked you before politely in private email to no response, or apparently, effect. It is only in the rarest of occasions I will ever put forth such a request, and an even more unusual case to go public with it. I appreciated your volunteering to do the email survey but turning around with the final summary and admitting yourself that you're `too lazy to tabulate results' I find highly annoying (what is the point?), and I think does a disservice to the people who took the time to respond (including myself). Following is some traffic from the group. Some favorite quotes:

From Greg Welch, who's been extremely helpful in contributing to the FAQ referring to that private whistleblower agency:

BTW, you just made me realize that I need to contact them to see if they can read (or are already reading) this news group somehow. Boy, I wish this group was around when I was in a similar situation.

Also, from Karen Lofstrom, the NSA grant whistleblower:

If we can get a number of other whistleblowers posting here, or people from organizations that support whistleblowers, perhaps we can create some group wisdom about how to blow the whistle _effectively_. I certainly could have used some informed advice when I started.

===cut=here=== From yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!news.H awaii.Edu!uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lofstrom Tue, 8 Jun 1993 03:55:08 GMT Newsgroups: alt.whistleblowing Path: yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!news.H awaii.Edu!uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lofstrom From: lofstrom@uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Karen Lofstrom) Subject: NSA Grant Misused Message-ID: <C8AAvw.LA8@news.Hawaii.Edu> Summary: Grantee runs private business with government paid labor Keywords: NSA, whistleblowing Sender: news@news.Hawaii.Edu Organization: University of Hawaii X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 03:55:08 GMT Lines: 83 I noted with interest the creation of this newsgroup and looked forward to reading the contributions of other whistleblowers. However, no whistleblowers have come forward. I suppose I'll have to post, then. I'm a fired whistleblower. After working five months of a part-time job funded by a NSA grant, at Chaminade University (note that this case does not involve the University of Hawaii, under whose auspices I post), I had begun to realize that my boss was misusing the grant. He was using government paid clerical labor, including mine, to run several businesses. He was ordering equipment for the grant from his own company, and charging the government twice what he charged any other customers (and a 1000% markup over what he actually paid for the equipment). I started collecting documentation of the problems, sneaking xeroxes when no one was looking. I didn't know anything about how to blow a whistle, so I consulted a friend of mine who worked in the state prosecutor's office. He suggested I contact a LARGE, reputable law firm, which I did. The lawyer I consulted was friendly and helpful, even refusing to charge for his services. I had been planning to go talk to the university. The lawyer said that they had failed in their oversight, would probably be more inclined to cover things up than fix them. He suggested I phone the granting agency and talk to someone there (though not the person directly responsible for the grant, who was a friend of the grantee, and had taken an expensive present from him). Well, the lawyer didn't know that you can't phone the NSA. I had a phone number from the copy of the grant I had surreptitiously xeroxed, but the operator said they would accept calls from secure lines only. Write a letter, she said. I wrote a letter and chewed my nails for a week. They didn't respond at all. So I took the advice of another friend and went to the FBI and the DCIS (Defense Criminal Investigation Services). They started an investigation. I was fired. I didn't go to the press because I was trying to be nice, and reasonable, and hoping that the government would take some action. I didn't necessarily want my ex-boss prosecuted, I just wanted the waste stopped. Well, the DCIS decided not to prosecute. They said that my charges weren't unfounded, but that the case was so complex that they weren't sure they could win it in a jury trial. Well, the investigator told me that. The DCIS never put anything on paper. So I wrote the NSA, asking if they were taking any steps to prevent further waste and fraud. They advised me to contact the DCIS. I wrote the DCIS, they didn't answer. I went to my Congressman, who wrote to the NSA. The NSA told him to tell me to write to the DCIS. I wrote the DCIS and they didn't answer. I wrote the Congressman again and got no reply. So I went to the papers. The local alternative weekly wasn't interested; they said they didn't have enough writers to cover all the stories. I went to the mainstream newspaper, which was extremely interested at first. Then the reporter discovered that I had been fired over a year ago. This made the whole thing non-news. Apparently if I had contacted them while the investigation was still going on, it would have been news. Several people have advised me to sue. There is a law forbidding the firing of whistleblowers. However, the damages to be to be recovered might be slight, given that it was a low-paying clerical job, and I would have to pay for the suit out of my own pocket. The NSA didn't renew the grant. However, they didn't do anything to crack down on my ex-boss. He stole approximately $100,000 from the taxpayers, and he's going to get away with it. For the halls of infamy: the grant was NSA Grant PR #00-91-0016 MDA904-91-H-5002. The grantee was Dr. John Wollstein. I keep asking myself, what could I have done differently? I do wish that I had been on the net then, that this topic had existed, and that I could have gotten some advice from other whistleblowers. I wish that I'd contacted the press as soon as I was fired, rather than trying to be "nice". I'd like some discussion of this, but I would hope that it could be productive. It wouldn't make me feel any better to have peoplle flaming for being stupid about this or that, given that _I'm_ the one who paid the price for trying to do the right thing. ----- Karen Lofstrom lofstrom@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu K.Lofstrom on GEnie From yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.an s.net!darwin.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!concert!borg.cs.unc.edu!c s.unc.edu!welchg 8 Jun 1993 12:59:43 GMT Path: yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.an s.net!darwin.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!concert!borg.cs.unc.edu!c s.unc.edu!welchg From: welchg@cs.unc.edu (Gregory Welch) Newsgroups: alt.whistleblowing Subject: Re: NSA Grant Misused Date: 8 Jun 1993 12:59:43 GMT Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Lines: 109 Distribution: world Message-ID: <1v22fvINNc4f@borg.cs.unc.edu> References: <C8AAvw.LA8@news.Hawaii.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.cs.unc.edu Keywords: NSA, whistleblowing My God Karen, I would hope that nobody would "flame" you! Nobody should have to go through what you did, but unfortunately it happens. The world has enough problems without people like your old employer adding their garbage. Good for you for being strong & courageous enough to do something. My hat is off to you. I have a few suggestions/comments inserted below. But *most* importantly, I *strongly* suggest that you contact: Project on Government Oversight 2025 I Street, NW Suite 1117 Washington, DC 20006 202-466-5539 (this should be placed in a FAQ or such for this group...?) Ask to speak to someone about your situation, and ask them to send you some literature about their organization (they have a booklet, etc.) They may be able to help you obtain legal help (ACLU?) etc. Best of all it will do you good to know that there *are* people, even organizations, who are trying to stop the waste, abuse, fraud, etc. Some background: "The Project" (as they like to refer to it) is a non-profit organization that has been around for several years (previously called the Government Accountability Project or GAP.) I have worked with them in the past (a guy named Keith Rutter in particular -- don't know if he's still there) and feel that they are a *great* source for help in a situation like yours. In fact, that's all they do, full-time, is assist "whistleblowers" in correcting or exposing such problems. This organization has access to government officals (congressmen & women, etc.) as well as other legal & publicity entities. Their goal is to assist people like you (and me it so happens) in addressing such problems in the most *effective* manner. In other words, they are experienced in working quietly with people like us (reading this group) to accomplish as much as possible, without causing one to become a martyr for the cause. And when "quiet" is no longer appropriate, they will also help doing whatever is necessary. The organization also maintains an extensive network of past whistleblowers, and experts in various fields who are happy to assist (e.g. with problems that are of a particular technical nature.) BTW, you just made me realize that I need to contact them to see if they can read (or are already reading) this news group somehow. Boy, I wish this group was around when I was in a similar situation. Now, a few posting-specific comments... In article <C8AAvw.LA8@news.Hawaii.Edu>, lofstrom@uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Karen Lofstrom) writes: [stuff deleted] |> |> Several people have advised me to sue. There is a law forbidding |> the firing of whistleblowers. However, the damages to be |> to be recovered might be slight, given that it was a low-paying clerical |> job, and I would have to pay for the suit out of my own pocket. |> Most certainly ask the people at "The Project" about this. It *sounds* like you have a pretty tight case (caveat: I'm *not* a lawyer :-) ). Anyway, it *is* against the law for anyone to seek retribution against someone in your situation. It is also possible that punitive damages could be awarded (not sure) in which case you might get enough to make the disruption to your life a little more tolerable. Besides, if you could get the ACLU (or such) to represent you, the greatest accomplishment might be to publicize your case, giving hope to those in similar situations, and cause to worry to other would-be thieves. |> The NSA didn't renew the grant. However, they didn't do anything to crack |> down on my ex-boss. He stole approximately $100,000 from the taxpayers, |> and he's going to get away with it. |> Boy, not if we can help it! I will call "the project" today to let them know about the net. Please send me mail if you want me to mention your name & situation, I could ask them to contact you if you want. [stuff deleted] |> I keep asking myself, what could I have done differently? I do wish that |> I had been on the net then, that this topic had existed, and that I could |> have gotten some advice from other whistleblowers. I wish that I'd |> contacted the press as soon as I was fired, rather than trying to be "nice". |> Don't look back too much, it may not be over yet. You may still be able to do something about this. |> I'd like some discussion of this, but I would hope that it could be |> productive. It wouldn't make me feel any better to have peoplle flaming |> for being stupid about this or that, given that _I'm_ the one who paid the |> price for trying to do the right thing. |> |> |> |> ----- Karen Lofstrom lofstrom@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu |> K.Lofstrom on GEnie Thanks for the most meaningful posting to this newsgroup yet, and thanks for doing what you did. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ GREG WELCH | Email: welchg@cs.unc.edu University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill | Department of Computer Science | Room 323, Sitterson Hall | Chapel Hill, NC 27599 | From yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.an s.net!agate!ames!news.Hawaii.Edu!uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lofstrom Wed, 9 Jun 1993 01:59:42 GMT Newsgroups: alt.whistleblowing Path: yuma!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.an s.net!agate!ames!news.Hawaii.Edu!uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!lofstrom From: lofstrom@uhunix3.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Karen Lofstrom) Subject: Re: NSA Grant Misused Message-ID: <C8C07J.FoB@news.Hawaii.Edu> Sender: news@news.Hawaii.Edu Organization: University of Hawaii X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <C8AAvw.LA8@news.Hawaii.Edu> <1993Jun8.202526.26656@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 01:59:42 GMT Lines: 22 Thanks all, for the appreciative posts and the E-mails of support that I received. No flames. Why was I expecting them? Perhaps because I felt that I had been a bit naive in expecting the government to police itself, without the glare of outside publicity to force it to do the right thing. So the question I put up for discussion is: when should a whistleblower go the media? How? If we can get a number of other whistleblowers posting here, or people from organizations that support whistleblowers, perhaps we can create some group wisdom about how to blow the whistle _effectively_. I certainly could have used some informed advice when I started. Someone upstream asked what the grant was funding. Nothing classified. Something that was actually beneficial and socially benign. It was to help high-school age immigrants from Asian and especially SE Asian countries maintain their first languages. Eventually useful to the NSA, as providing a pool of possible translators, but also good for the kids involved. That's one reason I wanted to step lightly. -- --- Karen Lofstrom lofstrom@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu K.Lofstrom on GEnie