Religions are essentially collections of stories about the latter method of modeling, created for people who can't do the math,

20 years ago, I might have agreed with this assessment. Actually, written in the present tense it is largely true. 3,000 years ago is a different story, however, and modern religionists often forget that. The earliest religious texts (including the Torah) are written in such a 'primitive' time that I don't think any of the modern notions apply. For instance, in the Torah it would seem that there are clearly plenty of other Gods to choose from, but the one the jews were commanded to choose was (Tetragrammaton). He doesn't even seem to have the qualities of "justice" righteousness, truth, peace, compassion blah blah blah that we are supposed to associate with God today. In fact, the Torah was written in the form of a peace treaty, with the implication that if the jews stopped obeying their end of the bargain, they'd get the CRAP kicked out of them. Period. Likewise, the Vedas and the earliest portions of the I Ching come from a time that is probably incomprehensible now.

and who have never bothered to wonder why all the choirs of angels form such neat little arrays

A reference to group theory, eh? Nice. The Jungians of the world might argue otherwise, that religion to some extent codified primitive forms of group theory into symbolism. Certainly, the Dzog Chen tibetan Buddhists did comething very close to this, visualizing n-dimensional arrays of 'dieties' which are considered really focal/fold points of "psychocosmic energy"*. If you are referring to modern religion in the religious sense, I agree. But I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater...there are some very odd things tucked away into the Torah, for instance, that are arguably worth discovering. But then again, maybe I'm willing to throw the baby out with the bath water...if that water gets pooped up enough, the baby is no longer visible! -TD *: See "Psychocosmic Symbolism of the Buddhist Stupa" by Anagarika Govinda for an excellent discussion of buddhist iconography in the context of an architectural study.

From: Eric Cordian <emc@artifact.psychedelic.net> To: Tim May <timcmay@got.net> CC: cypherpunks@minder.net Subject: Re: Senators from Utah being Southern Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:29:41 -0700 (PDT)

Tim wrote:

...

Let me remind folks that I am areligious...I no more believe in a god or goddess or afertlife or supernatural things than I believe in the Easter Bunny. I view all religions as cults of magical belief.

There are two ways of modeling the Universe. One can build it from lots of copies of the null set, or one can take the undifferentiated whole, and subdivide it into countless fragments in equilibrium with each other in various complex ways.

Religions are essentially collections of stories about the latter method of modeling, created for people who can't do the math, and who have never bothered to wonder why all the choirs of angels form such neat little arrays.

God is the thing you have before you start chopping it up. God is the abstraction that has everything in the universe as a possible instance. Archangels are chunks of a coarse partition of God. We are chunks of a fine partition of God.

...

Having said this, all of the Mormons I have known have been unusually honest, forthright, and hard-working. I worked with a fair number of them at Intel, and they were solid contributors. And the Mormons are doing well financially, here in the U.S. and abroad.

Mormons make perfect employees. They are always bathed, well-dressed, hard-working, self-reliant, well-educated, respectful of your authority, and they hardly ever mention that after they die, they hope to rule over other planets in physical bodies, and have a wonderful sex life.

Then again, they'll put their teenage children in a mental institution in a heartbeat for defying them, or acting gay.

Mormons are the true Stepford citizen units. Perfect on the outside, dangerous on the inside.

...

He was a hell of a lot more interesting than JC, that's for sure. I recommend "The Prophecy," the wonderful movie with Christopher Walken as the angel Gabriel.

The Nephilim are a fun bunch.

...

As such beings and such deities are fanciful, I am more interested in the psychological state that allowed a 7th-century merchant to write such a book.

The whole universe is inside you, Grasshopper.

-- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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