CDR: Re: censorship rears its head
Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:
I will look forward to watching the coverage. Do you plan to take out just the censorious bitch Lynne Cheney, or also her censorious husband and VP candidate?
And then there's Al Gore (RAT) and his running mate (JEW RAT).
(Subliminal messages brought to you by the Republican Party).
Interesting that 3 out of the 4 top rats--Cheney, Gore, Lieberman--have their own censorious attacks on speech, or have spouses who lead such attacks. Lynne, Tipper, and Lieberman himself. I wonder why Bush is being left out? Maybe it'll be like Nixon in China: the only one of the four not calling for repeal of the First Amendment will be the one who pulls the trigger.
Some attorney (RAT) has filed suit against the entertainment industry over the shooting in Peduchah, Kentucky. Right now he's doing the talk radio circuit, trying to drum up support. (I suppose to cause such a public outcry that the judge feels strongarmed to rule in his favor, and to taint juries.) The central argument appears to be that the entertainment industry has marketted their products, which happen to contain violence and sex, to the people who are their biggest consumers: people under 18. But because they're under the magic age of 18, they apparently aren't responsible for blowing away their classmates; the computer game companies are. The quantity of bogus claims, lies, distortions, and general bullshit the guy was spreading is too large for me to list them all, and after a while they kind of blend into one big blob of bullshit anyway, but I'll go over some of the more notable ones. 1) Contrary to whatever this attorney and other power-hungry censors would like us all to believe, the fact that most of these school shooters have played violent video games and seen violent movies does not mean that the movies were to blame. "But *ALL* of them have!" Yeah, and all of them probably ate chicken at some point in the month before their rampages too. The fallacy is obvious. As far as I know, nobody has bothered to counter the obvious question: Isn't it more likely that the people who have a predisposition to violence just tend to be drawn to this media, especially considering that there are millions of people out there who use it but *aren't* killing people? 2) He quickly tried to make some point that when a child (again, defined as someone under 18, or 17, as the case may be) sees "violent or sexually-explicit" images, there is some change in the brain. So he mentions some Harvard University study, but doesn't bother to give a useable citation (journal name, author, date...), which, he claims, showed "increased blood flows to the amygdala" using MRI in "children," but not in adults. A) I have "increased blood flows" when I have a pulsating headache too. I have "increased blood flows" whenever my heart rate and blood pressure increase. I'm not a neurologist, but I'd figure that that doesn't mean anything neurologically. It dosen't even mean that there's enhanced activity in that region. B) Wouldn't it make more sense to just slip the subjects radioactive glucose, wait a few minutes, and then do a PET scan? That way you can actually tell which neurons are firing? (When a neuron generates an action potential, it doesn't use any energy. It uses it when it recovers. So when a neuron fires a lot, it sucks in a lot of glucose, which means that the radioactive glucose winds up in the neurons, which means that it's held there, which means that you can see it on a PET scan.) C) Neurological structure changes *do* occur. They occur when I watch violent and sexually-explicit movies. They also change when I sit on the toilet, eat food, do a math problem, listen to music, or walk across the room. It's called learning. The fact that neurological structure changes in people exposed to this is meaningless. Do a behavoral study, then it might have some validity. D) Why would you use an MRI in this case _at all_? E) Even increased activity does not imply psychological or neurological changes. It means that the neurons are firing. That's all. This indicates that either: A) The researchers were purposefully trying to obscure data. B) The stupid attorney, and by extension probably the stupid judge, is trying to pull one over on the intentionally-stupid jury and voluntarily-stupid public, by distorting a biomedical study. 3) When another attorney called in and challenged him with the obvious statement that it isn't the entertainment industry's problem but rather the shooter's and the shooter's parents, the plantiff's attorney retorted with a purposeful and direct distortion and asked: "It's the fault of the parents of the three little girls who were shot?" What happened after that was fairly unintelligable, while the plantiff's attorney proceeded to talk over the caller. 4) Why can't people accept that shit happens and that sometimes you *can't* go blame everyone in sight? I don't hear of anyone suing any of the following: * The public school system in the area: The shooter most likely had a history of behavoral problems, yet they put him in the general population. Therefore, along the same line of thinking that this guy is using (but at a position closer to sanity) he should be suing the public schools. * Anybody who ever passed laws restricting the ability of the students who were shot at to themselves have a gun. (No, I don't necessarily think that they should have had one, but even *this* would be saner than suing the movie and computer game industries.) 5) His ethical justification for filing this lawsuit, which he knows is ridiculous, is that if the movie industry isn't found at fault and sued, the government will impose what he calls "draconian censorship laws." 6) If violent and sexually-explicit imagery and games are *really* so inherently dangerous, then why aren't the millions and millions of *other* people out there who have watched it or played them out there killing people? 7) Why can't we place the blame where it belongs: On the shooter?
At 8:26 PM -0400 9/14/00, David Marshall wrote:
Some attorney (RAT) has filed suit against the entertainment industry over the shooting in Peduchah, Kentucky. Right now he's doing the talk radio circuit, trying to drum up support. (I suppose to cause such a public outcry that the judge feels strongarmed to rule in his favor, and to taint juries.)
There are a bunch of these kinds of cases in the U.S. today. Suits against gun makers, against Hollywood studios ("Natural Born Killers," for example), against record companies, etc. It used to be that one was held responsible for one's own actions. These suits are going forward because, as so many folks have pointed out, we are a "victimization society." "He made me do it!" "Twinkies caused me to kill." "Colt made the weapons, so they should pay." I have no patience with such arguments. (I have little patience in general.) Strong crypto will mean punishment is ultimately delivered to the tens of millions who need to be dealt with. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, David Marshall wrote:
A) I have "increased blood flows" when I have a pulsating headache too. I have "increased blood flows" whenever my heart rate and blood pressure increase. I'm not a neurologist, but I'd figure that that doesn't mean anything neurologically. It dosen't even mean that there's enhanced activity in that region.
Actually I think it's usually taken to mean that. As for the amygdala, it's not exactly pure science to say that increased activity in that region causes any damage or is associated with whatever negative impact these people think sex/violence incurs. Since this particular nucleus has a lot to do with fight or flight reactions and primitive emotions, I'd be ready to bet on similar reactions being found in anybody having fun/suffering stress/whatever.
That way you can actually tell which neurons are firing? (When a neuron generates an action potential, it doesn't use any energy. It uses it when it recovers. So when a neuron fires a lot, it sucks in a lot of glucose, which means that the radioactive glucose winds up in the neurons, which means that it's held there, which means that you can see it on a PET scan.)
Actually bloodflow has been found more accurate a predictor of neural activity in some studies than the use of radioactive markers - for some reason, the metabolic activity of human cells does not always get reflected in their oxygen/glucose consumption in any straight forward way.
meaningless. Do a behavoral study, then it might have some validity.
My point exactly.
D) Why would you use an MRI in this case _at all_?
I think the fastest MRI equipment can go upto tens (or even hundreds? anybody?) of images per second. Tracking bloodflow at such a high temporal resolution actually gives a lot more information about the local activity of the brain than those relatively static PET shots. (Remember, PET requires considerable repetition, consentration and conditioning before sharp images of brain activity are acquired.)
A) The researchers were purposefully trying to obscure data.
Not likely. Few people with MRI access are stupid enough to do this. Of course, we might find that the researchers have a concurring viewpoint on the subject matter...
B) The stupid attorney, and by extension probably the stupid judge, is trying to pull one over on the intentionally-stupid jury and voluntarily-stupid public, by distorting a biomedical study.
More than likely. Is this something new in the censorship debate?
* The public school system in the area: The shooter most likely had a history of behavoral problems, yet they put him in the general population.
General population? Phew...
7) Why can't we place the blame where it belongs: On the shooter?
'Cause that would mean children aren't innocent? Sampo Syreeni <decoy@iki.fi>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university
participants (3)
-
David Marshall
-
Sampo A Syreeni
-
Tim May