Toy gun ban: This is pleasantly insane
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk_politics/newsid_1207000/1207355.stm Some toy guns could be made illegal if the government goes ahead with its intention to ban replica firearms. Home Office minister Charles Clarke revealed that such a move was possible when he spoke at an exhibition of seized fake weapons, which included imitation Uzi machine pistols and an SA-80 assault rifle. Such replicas can be bought in shops or by mail order and are frequently used by criminals. The minister said replicas posed a "real threat" to society.
Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com> wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk_politics/newsid_1207000/1207355.stm
Some toy guns could be made illegal if the government goes ahead with its intention to ban replica firearms.
Home Office minister Charles Clarke revealed that such a move was possible when he spoke at an exhibition of seized fake weapons, which included imitation Uzi machine pistols and an SA-80 assault rifle.
Such replicas can be bought in shops or by mail order and are frequently used by criminals.
The minister said replicas posed a "real threat" to society.
The British can own single and double barrel shotguns, but only if they're licensed and registered and they can only use birdshot. If you take a look at British gun magazines, you'll see advertisements for really good replica firearms- They're kind of expensive though. An unintended consequence to all of this prohibitionist activity, and a not altogether harmful one IMHO, is that the average citizen is losing more and more respect for the government. And the ultimate unintended consequence is the logical choice between violating the law by owning an illegal fake firearm or by violating the law owning a real one. Most people will choose owning a real one- Regards, Matt- ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, 2175 Bayfield Drive, Columbus, OH 43229 (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************
FWIW: even in Kalifornia, you can walk into a store and walk out with a black powder revolver, powder, caps, balls and patches. At 01:58 PM 3/12/01 -0500, Matthew Gaylor wrote:
Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com> wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk_politics/newsid_1207000/1207355.stm
Some toy guns could be made illegal if the government goes ahead with its intention to ban replica firearms.
Home Office minister Charles Clarke revealed that such a move was possible when he spoke at an exhibition of seized fake weapons, which included imitation Uzi machine pistols and an SA-80 assault rifle.
Such replicas can be bought in shops or by mail order and are frequently used by criminals.
The minister said replicas posed a "real threat" to society.
The British can own single and double barrel shotguns, but only if they're licensed and registered and they can only use birdshot. If you take a look at British gun magazines, you'll see advertisements for really good replica firearms- They're kind of expensive though.
An unintended consequence to all of this prohibitionist activity, and a not altogether harmful one IMHO, is that the average citizen is losing more and more respect for the government. And the ultimate unintended consequence is the logical choice between violating the law by owning an illegal fake firearm or by violating the law owning a real one. Most people will choose owning a real one-
Regards, Matt-
************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, 2175 Bayfield Drive, Columbus, OH 43229 (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************
Declan McCullagh wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk_politics/newsid_1207000/1207355.stm
Some toy guns could be made illegal if the government goes ahead with its intention to ban replica firearms.
Truly is thoughtcrime.
Home Office minister Charles Clarke revealed that such a move was possible when he spoke at an exhibition of seized fake weapons, which included imitation Uzi machine pistols and an SA-80 assault rifle.
Such replicas can be bought in shops or by mail order and are frequently used by criminals.
So are soap, towels, shaving cream, aftershave, pints of guinesss, shoes, underwear, socks, coats, sunglasses, hats, and other items. Hey, let's ban them all. After all they're all frequently used by criminals.
The minister said replicas posed a "real threat" to society.
This "Ministry of Truth" is the real threat. -- ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_@_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
Frank Zappa used the term "Drool Britania" to describe the government in the UK. I think he was right. Next thing you know, it will be considered assault to hold your finger like a gun and say "bang". (If it is not already.) Zero tollerance requires a zero IQ. On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk_politics/newsid_1207000/1207355.stm
Some toy guns could be made illegal if the government goes ahead with its intention to ban replica firearms.
Home Office minister Charles Clarke revealed that such a move was possible when he spoke at an exhibition of seized fake weapons, which included imitation Uzi machine pistols and an SA-80 assault rifle.
Such replicas can be bought in shops or by mail order and are frequently used by criminals.
The minister said replicas posed a "real threat" to society.
alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
At 12:45 PM -0800 3/12/01, Alan Olsen wrote:
Frank Zappa used the term "Drool Britania" to describe the government in the UK.
I think he was right.
Next thing you know, it will be considered assault to hold your finger like a gun and say "bang". (If it is not already.)
Kids have been detained and expelled from schools for doing precisely this. "Zero tolerance." (Check new archives if interested...this was within the past several months.) And I believe some gang banger types were busted for doing this in the direction of a cop in L.A. But maybe this was just in a movie, which reality is increasingly resembling. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Alan Olsen wrote:
Next thing you know, it will be considered assault to hold your finger like a gun and say "bang". (If it is not already.)
That can get you arrested for 'making a threat' here in the states. ____________________________________________________________________ Legislators and Judges are the pimps of modern American society. Police, lawyers, and reporters are their whores. The people are their 'John's'. Democracy is dead. Copyright 2001 All Rights Reserved The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Next thing you know, it will be considered assault to hold your finger like a gun and say "bang". (If it is not already.)
Try it in Heathrow airport and you will get ten years.
Zero tollerance requires a zero IQ.
So with Dufus in the Whitehouse zero tollerance in the US will be comming soon. Phill
On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
Next thing you know, it will be considered assault to hold your finger like a gun and say "bang". (If it is not already.)
Try it in Heathrow airport and you will get ten years.
Airports are already a "no humour zone", so that is to be expected...
Zero tollerance requires a zero IQ.
So with Dufus in the Whitehouse zero tollerance in the US will be comming soon.
When Bush Sr. was running for office many people voted for Clinton because "anyone was better". They were wrong. History repeated itself in some sort of sick self-referential joke. I expect that the coming Ashcroft years will make us look back fondly at the Meese and Reno days. alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
Declan McCullagh wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk_politics/newsid_1207000/1207355.stm
Some toy guns could be made illegal if the government goes ahead with its intention to ban replica firearms.
Home Office minister Charles Clarke revealed that such a move was possible when he spoke at an exhibition of seized fake weapons, which included imitation Uzi machine pistols and an SA-80 assault rifle.
Such replicas can be bought in shops or by mail order and are frequently used by criminals.
The minister said replicas posed a "real threat" to society.
One of the fun things about reading lists like Cypherpunks is that I get to see how little most people know about the world outside their own backyard. Every time the gun thing comes up some Americans react incredulously to British laws and we get people predicting that gun laws over here are about to provoke some sort of libertarian backlash. It's not going to happen. Right or wrong, almost everyone in the UK is in favour of the complete banning of handguns when they think about them at all. In fact almost no-one cares, and of those who do care almost everyone is in favour of the ban. Hemp smoking will be legalised in the UK before handguns are. In fact, to be honest, the legalisation of heroin is less unlikely than handguns (not that either will happen any time soon). After all more people in Britain use opiates than use guns. The view of British society that you are getting is probably biased by the people who post in places like this. We get the US just as wrong of course. The normal British view of the gun laws in the US (again, normal amongst the very few who notice or care what goes on in a foreign country) is that the majority of reasonable people are somehow being held to ransom by a tiny "gun lobby" of crazed right-wing fanatics. People here seem to expect that you will come to your senses one day and "do something" about the "gun culture". They are typically surprised to find apparently normal, sane people defending the sale & ownership of guns. Ken Brown
At 11:20 AM 3/13/01 +0000, Ken Brown wrote:
One of the fun things about reading lists like Cypherpunks is that I get to see how little most people know about the world outside their own backyard. Every time the gun thing comes up some Americans react incredulously to British laws and we get people predicting that gun laws over here are about to provoke some sort of libertarian backlash.
We feel the same about your royals, fascist Orwellian trends, lack of free speech, your state religion, and your hamster-racing. Please "do something" about "your culture" asap. :-) BTW Ken urban (liberal) Americans are as gun shy as Brits...
participants (10)
-
Alan Olsen -
David Honig -
Declan McCullagh -
drevil＠sidereal.kz -
Jim Choate -
Ken Brown -
Matthew Gaylor -
Phillip Hallam-Baker -
Sunder -
Tim May