---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [IP] more on AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak From: "Peter Wayner" <p3@wayner.org> Date: Sun, January 1, 2006 9:40 am To: dave@farber.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The real problem with these complaints of treason is that they're incorrectly argued. The latest round of articles did not reveal any new capabilities to the terrorists, the foreign intelligence agencies or even the US people. The ability of the NSA to intercept phone calls around the world has been described in books like _Puzzle Palace_ and many of the best selling spy novels written by Tom Clancy and Dan Brown. In _Clear and Present Danger_, Tom Clancy describes how the US government has the ability to use voice prints to locate the calls of drug king pins who borrow the phone of a friend. That book was published about ten years ago in 1996. Was Clancy a traitor for revealing the information he got from leaks? Is the Justice department investigating him? Let's assume that the bad guys didn't manage to hear Clancy's best selling leak. Well, the information is still out there. The agency's mission has been regularly described in public by many in government including Michael Hayden, the former head of NSA. He would discuss the agency's capabilities and then promise that they would never be used on US citizens without the agreement of a Federal Court. The actions of the main court, known colloquially as FISA, is well-documented in public reports that describe the basic procedure and include a count of the warrants approved or disapproved in the last year. This has been going on since 1978. Do you want to know how many warrants were issued last year? Just turn to Google. It was about 1754. http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/stats/fisa_stats.html The news this time around is that the Bush administration felt that it didn't need to work with the FISA court. It decided it didn't need to fill out a form and get their approval to get the wiretaps. It decided to cut out a bit of the bureaucracy. Why? They feel that the authorization to go to war against al Queda overrode all of the previous safeguards and bureaucratic requirements. Did it? Only a jury can decide. How would you vote? But any evil doers who used Google or read the official public reports of the NSA still knew they that could be wiretapped. The only difference is that there is now one less form to fill out. -Peter On Dec 31, 2005, at 2:27 PM, David Farber wrote:

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From: Mary Shaw <mary.shaw@cs.cmu.edu> Date: December 31, 2005 1:57:10 PM EST To: JoeyEM@aol.com Cc: Dave Farber <dave@farber.net> Subject: Re: [IP] AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak

Joe,

You appear to be saying that it's treasonous to expose illegal acts by the government if those acts are carried out under the cloak of protecting us from our enemies.

There seems to be something fundamentally broken about your model -- it has no way to curtail illegal activities by the government. The checks and

and the Constitution is what the government is supposed to be defending.

The argument that the ends justify the means has long been suspect.

Mary

----- Original Message ----- From: <JoeyEM@aol.com> To: <mary.shaw@cs.cmu.edu> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [IP] AP Story Justice Dept. Probing Domestic Spying Leak

You ask why Mary?? How about treason! Traitors who have disclosed information about an effective means with which to capture and destroy enemies of the US.

Mary, in case you didn't know, Muslims are out there who want to kill you. I know it's hard for Liberals to accept this basis truth, but if you don't accept the fact that we are at war and that the NY Times and Washington Post are more interested in protecting the rights of our enemies than your

balances provided for in the Constitution can't operate in this atmosphere, life

you better order your burka outfit as you may soon be required to wear one.

And yes Mary, the NYT and WP are traitorous.

Joe Mersnik

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