At 03:10 PM 4/29/03 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
OK, aside from the obvious problems with being held without charge until now, there are some other major issues here.
Apparently, the guy is only being charged with traveling to China in an
attempt to enter Afghanistan and fight US forces.
According to 1 "informant", who is getting *what* in return? Buying a parka and flying is not treason. Even trying to enter .af is not illegal. (And congress never did declare war there, did they?) Shooting off guns in a quarry is not illegal. Going to the same church as folks who pled is not illegal. Clearly, he was given a deal, while in illegal custody, cooperate or we file charges. He didn't, so they did. If they had charges to begin with, they needn't have held him illegally. Of course, he won't be tried in the justice system, so we'll never know the facts.. Maybe they'll go after his wife, if he still doesn't do as they dictate.
On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 02:09 PM, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 03:10 PM 4/29/03 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
OK, aside from the obvious problems with being held without charge until now, there are some other major issues here.
Apparently, the guy is only being charged with traveling to China in an
attempt to enter Afghanistan and fight US forces.
According to 1 "informant", who is getting *what* in return?
Buying a parka and flying is not treason. Even trying to enter .af is not illegal. (And congress never did declare war there, did they?) Shooting off guns in a quarry is not illegal. Going to the same church as folks who pled is not illegal.
Clearly, he was given a deal, while in illegal custody, cooperate or we file charges. He didn't, so they did. If they had charges to begin with, they needn't have held him illegally.
He was an illegal combatant because he did not actually enter a country we were not actually at war with, whose government was not actually the force behind the 9/11 attack. Using the psychics employed by the CIA, America has deduced that he may have been _thinking_ about entering Afghanistan, even though he didn't. And that's enough for a thoughtcrime conviction in the beknighted states. The case is so weak he'll hang himself in his jail cell. --Tim May
On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 04:12:40PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
He was an illegal combatant because he did not actually enter a country we were not actually at war with, whose government was not actually the force behind the 9/11 attack.
Using the psychics employed by the CIA, America has deduced that he may have been _thinking_ about entering Afghanistan, even though he didn't.
You're forgetting the many anonymous tipsters, including his neighbors (at least one in the pay of the Feds, I recall) who reported on Hawash. One alleged he was wearing "eastern" garb and had let his beard grow after 9-11. Other evidence included one of the "Portland Six" having Hawash's telephone number written on a business card or something similar. -Declan
On Tuesday, April 29, 2003, at 05:44 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 04:12:40PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
He was an illegal combatant because he did not actually enter a country we were not actually at war with, whose government was not actually the force behind the 9/11 attack.
Using the psychics employed by the CIA, America has deduced that he may have been _thinking_ about entering Afghanistan, even though he didn't.
You're forgetting the many anonymous tipsters, including his neighbors (at least one in the pay of the Feds, I recall) who reported on Hawash. One alleged he was wearing "eastern" garb and had let his beard grow after 9-11. Other evidence included one of the "Portland Six" having Hawash's telephone number written on a business card or something similar.
Don't forget the copy of the Koran they found when the ninjas raided his house. That alone justified the holding without charges, without bail, without access to a lawyer. Habeas Corpus never recovered from that creep Lincoln's attacks..it was good the fucker got offed. Gee, I also have a beard, and a copy of the Koran, and I lived in Hillsboro, Oregon. I hope the Fedz never learn that I have ricin and sarin formulas on my computer, sarin ingredients in my kitchen, that I know Steve McGeady from the Hackers Conference, and that I once worked with Jim Bell when we were both at that hotbed of terrorist plotting, Intel Corp. --Tim May "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists." --John Ashcroft, U.S. Attorney General
On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 07:06:11PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
Don't forget the copy of the Koran they found when the ninjas raided his house. That alone justified the holding without charges, without bail, without access to a lawyer. Habeas Corpus never recovered from
Tim, come now. He was able to have one phone call a week of up to ten minutes (or something like that) with his lawyer. I'm SURE it wasn't monitored. I'm SURE that was sufficient time to discuss legal strategy. Truly, your hostile comments do the hard working prosecutors at the U.S. Department of Justice a grave disservice in their brave fight against domestic terrorists. -Declan
On Thu, 1 May 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Tim, come now. He was able to have one phone call a week of up to ten minutes (or something like that) with his lawyer. I'm SURE it wasn't monitored. I'm SURE that was sufficient time to discuss legal strategy.
Truly, your hostile comments do the hard working prosecutors at the U.S. Department of Justice a grave disservice in their brave fight against domestic terrorists.
You're supposed to add the smily with that kind of comment. Someone might think you were serious, and Tim packs iron (that thows lead real fast)! Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 08:18 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2003, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Tim, come now. He was able to have one phone call a week of up to ten minutes (or something like that) with his lawyer. I'm SURE it wasn't monitored. I'm SURE that was sufficient time to discuss legal strategy.
Truly, your hostile comments do the hard working prosecutors at the U.S. Department of Justice a grave disservice in their brave fight against domestic terrorists.
You're supposed to add the smily with that kind of comment. Someone might think you were serious, and Tim packs iron (that thows lead real fast)!
Smileys are almost never needed. Those who miss irony don't deserve smileys and emoticons for hints. As for packing iron, of course I do. Various weapons bought untraceably, long before the current bans. I don't recognize the gun laws which violate the Second Amendment. John Ross had it right. I even rigged a flame thrower a while back. I keep it ready to go and practice with it occasionally. Seeing some ninja thugs running around in flames would be a wonderful sight to behold, I think..screaming for their mommas as their flesh bubbles and chars. My perimeter alarms I don't discuss. And whether I have set booby traps and claymores is something I won't discuss, either. I've had Feds threaten me, I've had them publish my Social Security Number (a major sin, in my opinion, and worth of extreme retribution, when the time is right). They know I am their enemy and I know they are my enemy. They seek to disarm us, to generate so many laws that we are all lawbreakers (even them, but they rarely prosecute members of their own clan), and to force everyone into plea bargains or face draconian, mandatory sentencing, illegal combatant laws. --Tim May
At 5:44 PM -0700 4/29/03, Declan McCullagh wrote:
You're forgetting the many anonymous tipsters, including his neighbors (at least one in the pay of the Feds, I recall) who reported on Hawash. One alleged he was wearing "eastern" garb and had let his beard grow after 9-11. Other evidence included one of the "Portland Six" having Hawash's telephone number written on a business card or something similar.
Hmmm - Ski season coming up. Better get better protection for my face should the unusual occurrence happen and I actually go skiing. Cheers - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Due process for all | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | used to be the | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@pwpconsult.com | American way. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
participants (5)
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Bill Frantz -
Declan McCullagh -
Major Variola (ret) -
Mike Rosing -
Tim May