At 10:48 AM 6/26/2002 -0400, Kathleen Dolan wrote:
In many states, it is illegal to store records showing who borrowed a book from a public library. Maryland, for example, requires destruction of the record after a point and even backups cannot be accessed without a court order.
KAD
Say a public library implements a policy of replying positively to all such inquiries, that is, if asked by a patron the db admin will tell them when their account is free of such inquiries. If a request does come in then the db admin can either: fail to respond (monitoring implied), tell them they are being monitored (violating the law) or lie and say they are not even if they are. So, can the Feds require a librarian to lie to a customer who inquires whether their library usage is being monitored?
Looks like at least one library is trying a variation the method I suggested... "The Patriot Act also prohibits libraries and others from notifying patrons and others that an investigation is ongoing. At least one library has tried a solution to "beat the system" by regularly informing the board of directors that there are no investigations. If the director does not notify the Board that there are no investigations, it can serve as a clue that something may be happening. " http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/1706/1/41 steve A foolish Constitutional inconsistency is the hobgoblin of freedom, adored by judges and demagogue statesmen. - Steve Schear
On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 09:46 AM, Steve Schear wrote:
At 10:48 AM 6/26/2002 -0400, Kathleen Dolan wrote:
In many states, it is illegal to store records showing who borrowed a book from a public library. Maryland, for example, requires destruction of the record after a point and even backups cannot be accessed without a court order.
KAD
Say a public library implements a policy of replying positively to all such inquiries, that is, if asked by a patron the db admin will tell them when their account is free of such inquiries. If a request does come in then the db admin can either: fail to respond (monitoring implied), tell them they are being monitored (violating the law) or lie and say they are not even if they are. So, can the Feds require a librarian to lie to a customer who inquires whether their library usage is being monitored?
Looks like at least one library is trying a variation the method I suggested...
"The Patriot Act also prohibits libraries and others from notifying patrons and others that an investigation is ongoing. At least one library has tried a solution to "beat the system" by regularly informing the board of directors that there are no investigations. If the director does not notify the Board that there are no investigations, it can serve as a clue that something may be happening. "
This is the "dead librarian switch." And in these times when the Constitution has been shredded, when dissidents are being sent to concentration camps in Cuba, when thought criminals who post links to explosives knowledge are in prison, perhaps "dead librarian switch" has literal meaning. I am giving thought to visiting one of my local libraries and sauntering up the checkout desk and casually saying "So, what about this Patriot Act and librarians narcing us out to Big Brother?" Then, after hearing her explanation, just as casually saying "Well, I hope it never happens. Because if I ever learn that you have narced me out, I would of course have to lie in wait until you leave the library and then do what needs to be done." Seriously, maybe librarians need to realize at a gut level that if they act as stool pigeons, as narcs, then some of them may pay the same price that rats in general sometimes pay. --Tim May "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -- Nietzsche
On Friday 29 August 2003 13:22, Tim May wrote:
I am giving thought to visiting one of my local libraries and sauntering up the checkout desk and casually saying "So, what about this Patriot Act and librarians narcing us out to Big Brother?"
Then, after hearing her explanation, just as casually saying "Well, I hope it never happens. Because if I ever learn that you have narced me out, I would of course have to lie in wait until you leave the library and then do what needs to be done."
Yah, good thinking. Push the local librarian from siding with the patrons against intrusive and unwarranted snooping, to thinking that Asscruft may actually have a point if there are all these dangerous wackos running around. -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel "If someone is so fearful that, that they're going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, makes me very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!" -- Rep. Henry Waxman
On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 08:56 PM, Steve Furlong wrote:
On Friday 29 August 2003 13:22, Tim May wrote:
I am giving thought to visiting one of my local libraries and sauntering up the checkout desk and casually saying "So, what about this Patriot Act and librarians narcing us out to Big Brother?"
Then, after hearing her explanation, just as casually saying "Well, I hope it never happens. Because if I ever learn that you have narced me out, I would of course have to lie in wait until you leave the library and then do what needs to be done."
Yah, good thinking. Push the local librarian from siding with the patrons against intrusive and unwarranted snooping, to thinking that Asscruft may actually have a point if there are all these dangerous wackos running around.
Even the owner of my ISP is narcing me out. Read what he wrote recently to a Net.Nazi who wanted my speech limited: "I'm sorry that Tim is being a bother again. He has a long history of being obnoxious and threatening. So far, he has not broken any laws. We have talked to the authorities about him on numerous occasions. They have chosen to watch but not act. Please feel free to notify me if he does anything that is beyond rude and actually violates any laws and I will immediately inform the authorities." Thank You Don Frederickson (co-owner and CEO of got.net, Santa Cruz)
On Saturday 30 August 2003 14:46, Tim May wrote:
Even the owner of my ISP is narcing me out.
Read what he wrote recently to a Net.Nazi who wanted my speech limited:
(snip) Huh. Did the ISP cc you on that, or did the would-be censor forward it to you as a warning that he held your access in his hands? -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel "If someone is so fearful that, that they're going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, makes me very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!" -- Rep. Henry Waxman
On Saturday, August 30, 2003, at 03:44 PM, Steve Furlong wrote:
On Saturday 30 August 2003 14:46, Tim May wrote:
Even the owner of my ISP is narcing me out.
Read what he wrote recently to a Net.Nazi who wanted my speech limited:
(snip)
Huh. Did the ISP cc you on that, or did the would-be censor forward it to you as a warning that he held your access in his hands?
The would-be censor forwarded it to me as a warning, that he was "in synch" with my own ISP and that I would likely soon be either losing my account or getting a visit from the cops (he claimed to have forwarded several of my posts to "law enforcement"). My larger point in this discussion here is the issue of what William Burroughs called "the policeman inside." Some librarians are probably now thinking they have a patriotic duty to see what people are reading and to report any "suspicious" behavior. Part of the intent of the Patriot Act and the Library Awareness Program was to bamboozle the nation's librarians into acting as the kind of "ward watchers" that were once so common in the Soviet Union (the babushkas who sat on each floor of apartment buildings and filed reports on the comings and goings of their flock). Just as some ISP owners seem to think it their duty to "talk to the police" about customers whom the DA has not charged with any crime but whom the "policeman inside" thinks may be committing thoughtcrime. I'm not hopeful that the evils of this "policeman inside" mentality can be demonstrated by mere, calm discussion. Reminding librarians that narcing out customers for reading magazines or books may result in violence against them may be useful. It may be that killing just a couple will make the point. Perhaps a small price to pay. --Tim May "Ben Franklin warned us that those who would trade liberty for a little bit of temporary security deserve neither. This is the path we are now racing down, with American flags fluttering."-- Tim May, on events following 9/11/2001
Tim wrote:
Even the owner of my ISP is narcing me out.
Read what he wrote recently to a Net.Nazi who wanted my speech limited:
"I'm sorry that Tim is being a bother again. He has a long history of being obnoxious and threatening. So far, he has not broken any laws. We have talked to the authorities about him on numerous occasions. They have chosen to watch but not act. Please feel free to notify me if he does anything that is beyond rude and actually violates any laws and I will immediately inform the authorities."
Thank You Don Frederickson (co-owner and CEO of got.net, Santa Cruz)
Every police state is enabled by the actions of thousands of little peons (like Don Frederickson here), who insert themselves into things that are none of their business, in order that they may feel that they are important in the new scheme of things. Indeed, baggage screeners, librarians, and operators of small mom and pop ISPs do more damage to individual freedom than the uniformed jackboots do. I am reminded of that scene in Roman Polanski's movie in which the hero staggers out of the apartment where he has been hiding, and is pursued out the building by a middle-aged woman screaming - "Stop him, He's a Jew!" Replace suspected Jew by Terrorist, Child Molester, Drug Dealer, or Money Launderer, and you basically have the current climate for neighbor on neighbor snooping here in AmeriKKKa. Indeed, the hallmark of the Neocon climate of fear we current live under is the successful exportation of the technology of critic silencing formerly found only in areas such as Holocaust Promotion or the Sex Abuse Agenda to every facet of our everyday lives. The new rule for personal political speech seems to be - "Don't tip your hand until you have the firepower to defend yourself." -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Steve Schear wrote:
Looks like at least one library is trying a variation the method I suggested...
"The Patriot Act also prohibits libraries and others from notifying patrons and others that an investigation is ongoing. At least one library has tried a solution to "beat the system" by regularly informing the board of directors that there are no investigations. If the director does not notify the Board that there are no investigations, it can serve as a clue that something may be happening. "
http://librarian.net/technicality.html is another example if such tactics. --B
participants (5)
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Bryan L. Fordham -
Eric Cordian -
Steve Furlong -
Steve Schear -
Tim May