Christian Right Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:33:11 +0200 Well, Bob, I am glad you answered my e-mail. What makes your philosophy an interesting combination of right-wing politics and anti-Semitism is that throughout your answers, you still insist on singling out the Jews for special treatment, which is CONTRARY to my understanding of right-wing, merit-based philosophy - with your only reason for it being "they got money" - like some jealous, Communist revolutionary. If a certain group is more successful than another - like the Orientals in America as opposed to the Blacks, for instance - that is the strength of an open, free market society like America. Secondly, Jews support lots of things. A Jewish left-winger supports the Rainbow Coalition for the same inane, stupid reasons that any Boston white, Anglo-Saxon liberal supports it. You, however, insinuate some conspiratorial plan by Jews to destroy America. You are wrong. Ditto for world government - Jews are not in a conspiracy to take over the world. That implies a special evil motivation for Jews (i.e., anti-Semitism). I reapeat: Jews who support leftist insanities support them for the same reason that anyone else of any other ethnicity does. What if I told you that most Americans of Italian background support liberal immigration laws? You'd find a reason - they want to make sure their relatives can get in and join them, etc.Would you say "AHAH! They are trying to take over America for a renewed fascist Italy!" Jews are motivated by the same things anyone else is. Thirdly, targeting Jews for extermination because they are taking over the world (or America)... that is ancient, classical anti-Semitism exactly for the reasons I listed above. As for Israel. It is the fulfillment of the prophesy of the ingathering of the exiles. Zionism seeks one thing: a Jewish State where Jews will be able to take their destiny in their own hands. I don't care what your friend told you. It was either a wishful, lefty, John Lennon, peace and love speech that he assumed is an insidious plan for world conquest (which is what most of these conspiracy theories are) or he is making up nonsense. Zionism is the OPPOSITE of one-world government - it demands that Jews have an independent, separate state, where most Jews will live. That is a call for yet another national entity, not an international one. You'll just have to trust me that you cannot lecture me about Zionism or Judaism or Israeli history or policies. [ IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ORTHODOX JEWS WERE NEARLY ALL OPPOSED TO ZIONISM BECAUSE THEY INTERPRETED PROPHECY TO SAY THAT ISRAEL WOULD NOT BE A NATION AGAIN UNTIL THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY THAT ZIONISM WAS STARTED AND PROMOTED BY ATHEIST RUSSIAN JEWS WHO WERE MARXISTS. ] If you oppose Jewish national sovereignty, then the burden is on you to show why you support other national sovereignties. Mostly, in fact, it is leftist, internationalist, pie in the sky types who are anti-Israel, because they are anti-nationalism of any kind. But YOU are pro-nationalist. So if you are in favor of all other nationalisms, but the Jewish one, then that is, again, anti-Semitism, just from the perspective of logic. Also, the rabbis who were against Zionism in the 1800's were indeed fearful of the secularism of most, but not all, of its founders. However, there were three groups. Those opposed, those in favor and the majority, who were silent, reserving judgement. Nowadays, there is only a small insignificant sect who calls for the absolute dismantling of Israel - and even THEY claim to believe it should be done peacefully. The Jewish groups that tend to support Arab violence against Israel, on the other hand, are EXACTLY those leftists that you so despise! Getting confusing, isn't it? [ IT IS TRUE THAT THE ORTHODOX JEWS HAVE NEARLY ALL BEEN CO-OPTED TO SUPPORT ZIONISM NOW. BUT WE SHALL SEE IF THIS WAS INDEED A SATANIC PLOT OR A G-D BLESSED PLOT. THE LAST CHAPTER IS NOT YET WRITTEN. ALSO, SINCE I AM VERY HOSTILE TO ISLAM I WOULD MORE GLADLY SUPPORT ISRAEL AS A BULWARK AGAINST ISLAM, BUT THE ANTI-CHRISTIAN BIGOTRY OF THE LEFT-WING AMERICAN JEWS CONFUSES MY LOYALTIES. ] Finally, I live in Israel, man. How would you feel if I said that it should have been the "People's Republic" of Massachusetts (where I went to school) that was hit by Bin Laden, killing thousands, just to "wake up the liberals there."? [ WELL IN RESPONSE TO WHAT YOU WROTE IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE, I MUST SAY THAT IF I WAS A JEW WHO LIVED IN ISRAEL, I WOULD BE A 100% MILITANT RIGHT-WINGER. I WOULD UTTERLY CRUSH ARAFAT AND I WOULD FORCIBLY REMOVE THE PALESTINIANS TO SYRIA, IRAQ, IRAN OR WHERE EVER AND I WOULD DO ALL OF THIS WITH NO APOLOGY. HOWEVER, IF I WAS A PALESTINIAN, I WOULD KILL AS MANY JEWS AS I COULD. I WOULD HATE THE JEWS AND REGARD THEM AS FOREIGN INVADERS WHO MUST BE REMOVED BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY, INCLUDING TERRORISM. AS A CHRISTIAN, MY LOYALTIES NORMALLY WOULD GO FIRST TO SUPPORTING JEWS AGAINST ISLAM, BUT MY ANGER AT WHAT THE LEFT-WING JEWS ARE DOING TO AMERICA HAS ME SOMEWHAT FLUMOXED. ] Incidentally, "messianic Jews" are an insult to Christianity and Judaism. If you do respect Orthodox Judaism, you will respect that you cannot combine true Judaism with true Christianity. There are anti-missionizing laws on the books in Israel. That applies to Hare Krishna just as much as to Jews for Jesus. No Christian in Israel is targeted because he is a Christian. There are Christians (and other non-Jews) in all sectors of Israeli society (incl. the army, the government, business). The claim of oppression of Christians in Israel is just wrong (do you read Josef Farah? He is an Arab and a religious Christian - and pro-Israel. He edits WorldNetDaily.com). [ REGARDING "MESSIANIC JEWS." THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY JEWS. JESUS WAS A JEW. THE APOSTLE'S PAUL & PETER & JOHN & MARK & MATTHEW WERE ALL JEWS. CHRISTIANITY IS A JEWISH RELIGION. CHRISTIANITY WAS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY JEWISH IN IT'S EARLY YEARS - SO - YOU ARE WRONG TO SAY THAT "MESSIANIC JEWS" ARE AN INSULT TO CHRISTIANITY. THOSE ANTI-MISSIONIZING LAWS ARE EVIL AND BIGOTED UNLESS YOU ADVOCATE THAT EVERY NATION SHOULD BE ABLE TO WRITE LAWS FAVORING THE SELECTED "STATE" RELIGION. YOU SOUND LIKE THE TALIBAN WHEN YOU ADVOCATE SUPPORT FOR "ANTI-MISSIONIZING" LAWS. BTW, YES, I READ AND LOVE JOE FARAH. JOE IS PRO-ISRAEL, JUST LIKE ALL PROTESTANT CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA USED TO BE. I AM TRYING TO CHANGE THAT. I AM WORKING TO TURN CHRISTIANS AGAINST THE LEFT-WING JEWS IN AMERICA OUT OF A MOTIVE OF SELF-DEFENSE BECAUSE OF WHAT THESE JEWS ARE DOING TO US CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA. ] That is why I say, stick to defeating liberal IDEAS - do not allow yourself to be drawn by conspiracy theories that depend on a certain ethnic group all working together to take over the world. What is true is that common problems lead to common solutions. [ I AM ONLY FOCUSING ON THE JEWS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE LEADERS OF NEARLY ALL OF THE ANTI-CHRISTIAN GROUPS IN AMERICA. ] Once you stop singling out Jews and start singling out wrong-headed, liberal ideas alone, you might earn some respect from more right-wing Jews, like myself. ---------- Nissan R. [ STICK MY HEAD IN THE SAND AND PRETEND I DO NOT SEE WHAT THE LEFT-WING JEWS ARE DOING TO AMERICA... IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TELLING ME TO DO? ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT I SHOULD NOT WRITE OR TALK ABOUT WHAT THESE LEFT-WING JEWS ARE DOING TO AMERICA? PS - YOU CLAIM TO BE RIGHT WING, BUT I SUSPECT YOU ARE IN FAVOR OF ABORTION RIGHTS, TOLERANCE OF HOMOSEXUALS AND PERHAPS EVEN SOME SOCIALISM SUCH AS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE OR SOCIAL SECURITY TYPE RETIREMENT PROGRAMS. TELL ME IT IS NOT TRUE. I AM BCC'NG THIS TO 150 PEOPLE ON MY PERSONAL EMAIL LIST. SHALOM, BOB FROM MICHIGAN.] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/XgSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Dear Friend, Please help me make this email list grow. Please send me a list of email addresses of people you think might be interested in joining the email list. 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