Re: Anthrax...coincidence?
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
Center for Disease Control Investigating Second Anthrax Case By Chris Dolmetsch
FORTUNATELY, this stuff is not contagious. Either you have it or you don't.
I'm not sure I believe that, or much of anything else put out regarding a bioagent. ("We have everything under control. Just continue to pay your taxes and do what we tell you and everything will be all right.") Are there any real doctors or vets on the list who can confirm it from their own knowledge? (Sorry, I don't think I want to trust the word of a "Dr Evil". <grin>) I figure the spores have to come from somewhere, and they seem to be grown in animals and then released to spread. According to the CDC page on the subject, "Anthrax most commonly occurs in wild and domestic lower vertebrates..., but it can also occur in humans when they are exposed to infected animals or tissue from infected animals". Humans are animals, aren't they? Do the spores reproduce only in herbivores? Well, maybe I'm just cynical from experience with the government's lying and concealing for our own good. SRF -- Steve Furlong Computer Condottiere Have GNU, Will Travel 617-670-3793 "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." -- Plato
At 11:58 AM 10/6/01 -0400, Steve Furlong wrote:
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
Center for Disease Control Investigating Second Anthrax Case By Chris Dolmetsch
FORTUNATELY, this stuff is not contagious. Either you have it or you don't.
I'm not sure I believe that, or much of anything else put out regarding a bioagent. ("We have everything under control. Just continue to pay your taxes and do what we tell you and everything will be all right.") Are there any real doctors or vets on the list who can confirm it from their own knowledge? (Sorry, I don't think I want to trust the word of a "Dr Evil". <grin>)
Channelling TM: why don't you google the topic yourself? Or go to a library, since if you kick the paranoia up a notch you can't trust the net. In fact, Anthrax spores are much more useful than say smallpox militarily, because Anthrax doesn't spread to your homeland. That's the whole point. You have to use spores to infect, but infected people don't make spores. Also, once infected, you're toast quickly despite treatment. But other background info backs this up: * You have to know what you're doing to force the bacilli to make spores, eg industrially. The bacteria will do it on its own under certain conditions, ie, its environment is getting harsh. True for lots of bugs. That's the knowledge that the germwar people know takes finesse, making spores and then making a decent inhalable aerosol of the thing. * There *are* nasties that live in the soil and make spores. An archeologist told me of a debilitating lung fungus you get if you dig in the ground a lot. A cell biologist told of someone getting a weird disease because they had fed human hair to their garden bacteria (to deter animals I think). * Similar (in a real bio sense) animals will often share diseases -HIV in primates, anthrax in sheep and the like, etc. Flu jumps between birds, pigs, and men. The cowpox/smallpox interaction has been noted here. Rabies gets anything warmblooded I think. Quite a lot of variation in species specificity, and a resivoir in "wild and domestic lower vertebrates" (like hanta in mice, lyme in deer) is common.
Do the spores reproduce only in herbivores?
Bacteria chose to make spores when the puddle is drying up.
Well, maybe I'm just cynical from experience with the government's lying and concealing for our own good.
SRF
Given current events, skepticism is even wiser than usual. But I wouldn't doubt the existing medical or bio info. The "extra-vigilance --> extra detection" explanation is of course possible. Still, *fantastic* timing, as has been pointed out.
David Honig wrote:
At 11:58 AM 10/6/01 -0400, Steve Furlong wrote:
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
Center for Disease Control Investigating Second Anthrax Case By Chris Dolmetsch
FORTUNATELY, this stuff is not contagious. Either you have it or you don't.
I'm not sure I believe that, or much of anything else put out regarding a bioagent. ("We have everything under control. Just continue to pay your taxes and do what we tell you and everything will be all right.") Are there any real doctors or vets on the list who can confirm it from their own knowledge? (Sorry, I don't think I want to trust the word of a "Dr Evil". <grin>)
Channelling TM: why don't you google the topic yourself?
Or go to a library, since if you kick the paranoia up a notch you can't trust the net.
In fact, Anthrax spores are much more useful than say smallpox militarily, because Anthrax doesn't spread to your homeland. That's the whole point. You have to use spores to infect, but infected people don't make spores. Also, once infected, you're toast quickly despite treatment.
But other background info backs this up:
* You have to know what you're doing to force the bacilli to make spores, eg industrially. The bacteria will do it on its own under certain conditions, ie, its environment is getting harsh. True for lots of bugs.
That's the knowledge that the germwar people know takes finesse, making spores and then making a decent inhalable aerosol of the thing.
* There *are* nasties that live in the soil and make spores. An archeologist told me of a debilitating lung fungus you get if you dig in the ground a lot. A cell biologist told of someone getting a weird disease because they had fed human hair to their garden bacteria (to deter animals I think).
* Similar (in a real bio sense) animals will often share diseases -HIV in primates, anthrax in sheep and the like, etc. Flu jumps between birds, pigs, and men. The cowpox/smallpox interaction has been noted here. Rabies gets anything warmblooded I think. Quite a lot of variation in species specificity, and a resivoir in "wild and domestic lower vertebrates" (like hanta in mice, lyme in deer) is common.
Do the spores reproduce only in herbivores?
Bacteria chose to make spores when the puddle is drying up.
Well, maybe I'm just cynical from experience with the government's lying and concealing for our own good.
SRF
Given current events, skepticism is even wiser than usual. But I wouldn't doubt the existing medical or bio info.
The "extra-vigilance --> extra detection" explanation is of course possible.
Still, *fantastic* timing, as has been pointed out.
It's peculiar enough to warrant further investigation, which according to the CDC bulletin is being done. I'd imagine they'd be analyzing soil samples from the garden and surrounding neighborhood, tracking down where fertilizer, potting soil, mulch, etc. came from, suspicious activity in the area, and so on, as well as even more vigilance checking pulmonary diseases. In addition to retracing people's movements as stated in the MSNBC article. Coincidences *do* happen, though. jbdigriz
participants (3)
-
David Honig -
James B. DiGriz -
Steve Furlong