At 11:53 PM 12/16/2001 -0800, John Young wrote:

I don't recall the rationale used by the USPO to forbid CJ from posting to cypherpunks. Anybody know the answer to that?

For CJ to be on Cpunks is Hangin' out with his old Bad Company from the 'hood, like that Jim Bell dude and the other guys on the Group W bench, talking about criiiime and father-rapin' and poetic-terrorizin' and creatin' a disturbance. The fact that they can't tell a web site from a mailing list when they're writing orders forbidding him to do it suggests it's not a deeply-thought-out policy here. At 12:08 AM 12/17/2001 -0500, Greg Newby wrote:

On Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 11:53:24PM -0800, John Young wrote:

...

... Just what is it about cypherpunks that drives federal officials in the elf-buggering northwest to phantasms of Inquisition, Witch Burning, chasing home-brewed bin Ladens? Inshallah, they act demon-possessed like christ-fetishist Robert Hanssen.

a. We understand the tech, they don't. (Ok, some of us understand some of the tech.) b. Anonymity is available & used

But that was just the point, in the Jim Bell case - the Fedz came in with their 24 8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows on the back, but unfortunately the judge and jury didn't have seeing-eye dogs, so they actually looked at the things and listened to the Fedz, and they *didn't* understand the technology enough to know that Assassination-Politics-Quality Anonymity *isn't* available or usable, and in particular, AP-Quality payer-and-payee-anonymous digital cash isn't available, and that if those fundamental building blocks aren't there, then any discussion of "how could it be used?" or "like, that'd be cool, huh huh!", at least by people who *do* understand the technology and state of its deployment, is strictly speculative philosophical bullshitting, not active conspiracy. Now, it's possible that the Fedz in question really understood this at the time, but Jim Bell's such a mainstream sympathy-inspiring figure, especially with his alleged history of stink-bombing IRS offices and his alleged paperwork-based harassment of bureaucrats and politicians allegedly with the so-called "common-law court" folks, some of whom allegedly *are* dangerous loons, that in the absence of extemely competent counsel, skilled at not only explaining really obscure technical material to hostile non-techies but also at dealing with seriously uncooperative clients, a conviction was a slam-dunk, so not only does it give them Federal Brownie Points for busting a "dangerous terrorist assassin" and preventing him from doing anything else real, but it serves as a deterrent for future JimBell-Wanabees who *don't* understand that the technology isn't there, and besides, he was in their face, and kept getting in their face after they'd successfully framed him. Is it likely that Jeff Gordon understood what was real about the tech and was doing this out of pure malice, as opposed to not understanding it and actually believing that Bell was a real threat? I doubt he cared enough about justice that, if he did come to understand that AP wasn't real, that he'd either apologize for his mistake or let it get in the way of an easy win. And CJ just kept jumping in the way yelling "Nyahh Nyahh" and looking wacko, and even back before 9/11, furriners didn't have civil rights, and he didn't get the "Oh, he's just Canadian" exception to that, because he was scaring the Canadians too.

c. I was just in Seattle. I think it might be the incessant rain that drives them bugfuck, combined with the short winter days. And all that caffein...

I've almost always found the weather in Seattle to be gorgeous, except one or two times that it was also pouring rain here in San Narcisco; maybe I'm just lucky. And Seattlers *smoke* a lot also, and it's always that nasty tobacco stuff, unlike down here :-) But the bigger problems are that they're Fedz, and that they fundamentally don't have much useful work to do, and that there's real hostility to them up there which they respond to in macho-tribal fashion, and face it, if you've got a choice of keeping your job by doing a big dangerous-terrorist bust, would *you* rather go after the real Aryan Nations types, or would you rather go after a Jim Bell or CJ which gets you almost as many Brownie Points without actually being dangerous or requiring serious police work? Sure, your coworkers might know it's a sucker play, but it looks almost as good on the paperwork that goes to Washington, which is good for the budget and your department's reputation, and in return they'll be happy you got this annoyance out of their face, and it's not like they're getting much non-cynical self-respect out of what they're usually doing.

At 08:21 AM 12/17/2001 +0000, some unnameable person wrote:

...

I'd like to see if pigs will dare fuck him for reading newspapers.

Interesting. Even more interesting would be to get cooperation of the paper's editor on the project: (1) avoid paying full price for the space, (2) gain a free-speech ally.

...

Any pointers to local papers appreciated.

Here's a little list from google.

Listed below are general newspapers in the Seattle area.

[...] 8 Stranger, The (Seattle) If anybody would, these guys will. I wub em. They have very sane views on free speech issues, and they've written positive stuff about encryption before. I'm pretty sure I remember them recommending PGP.

-- Luthor //Remembering is copying and copying is THEFT

On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, John Young wrote:

I've checked CJ's probation conditions and there's no mention of cypherpunks, though POs can probably set any condition they like. Or can they?

In NY, yes, and I have no reason to believe it would be any different anywhere else. For all intents and purposes, you are at the complete mercy of your P.O.. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------