"All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D"." Interesting. So even if the swatsika is protrayed as a bad thing (to the point of practically being a bullseye) it's banned. So...can you have swastikas in Textbooks? Perhaps 100 years from now the Holocaust will be forgotten. Of course, that'll make Tim May happy because then it could happen all over again. So a question for you: If I want to write a book on the history of the swastika, or teach about the holocuast in Germany, do I need a license or something? (And let's just assume I have a "politically correct" view.) -TD
From: Michael Kalus <mkalus@thedarkerside.to> To: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv@cdc.gov> CC: "cypherpunks@lne.com" <cypherpunks@lne.com> Subject: Re: Singers jailed for lyrics Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:48:14 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The German law clearly defines what is hate speech. It is not an easy task as you can see in a six month trial.
Germany, or any State that restricts words or thought, needs a regime change with extreme prejudice.
Then I guess you better start liberating the world. Pretty much any country in the world has a law against hate speech.
Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well.
Are there exceptions for Buddhists and Amerinds? Moron.
All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D".
And I would like
to add that most of these laws were made up by the allies (read US and Britain).
If so, then Germany should have the balls to discover freedom --adopt the US Constitution for instance. The US can't counter such a move.
They could actually until ~ 10 years ago. Germany (even though considered independend) wasn't. By international law a piece was never brokered, it was just a cease fire.
Of course now they could, but Germany still is a bit jumpy about it's past.
There is no "ultimate" free speech as the US promises,
Not in Germany, obviously. In the US, yes. Our founders trusted the Volk; your conquerors (eg the US) let your shepards (eg your govt) neuter the sheep (ie you).
Nice... So in the US you have :
- - Walmart which censors music to make it "clean". - - Blockbuster who edits movies (or has in the past, not sure if they still do) - - TV Stations who edit movies - - Censors at TV stations who "watch" over the programming. - - What about the FCC who restricts what can be aired?
Fuck censors dead.
I agree.
Freedom is only tested when its unconfortable, baby.
I agree again, but the problem is that even in the good ol'e US of A it is not tested.
Maybe you will find this list too uncomfortable, Kalus.
Doubtful. I don't have an issue with discussion if both sides can get their say. I do not agree that driving people like Nazis into the underground accomplishes anything. Their ideas have to be looked at in the light and then society can answer.
Problem with that is: 99% of people give a fuck about discussion or ideas. they want to be told what to do.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3
iQA/AwUBP+zW1WlCnxcrW2uuEQIfqgCcDMvh3WH9dspQ/Tf43a9nT8z521AAnjuO 0aujI5ksmZhQ23+cJNPEzVCZ =K0rP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_________________________________________________________________ Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory offer. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 27-Dec-03, at 9:53 AM, Tyler Durden wrote:
"All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D"."
Interesting. So even if the swatsika is protrayed as a bad thing (to the point of practically being a bullseye) it's banned.
So...can you have swastikas in Textbooks? Perhaps 100 years from now the Holocaust will be forgotten. Of course, that'll make Tim May happy because then it could happen all over again.
So a question for you: If I want to write a book on the history of the swastika, or teach about the holocuast in Germany, do I need a license or something? (And let's just assume I have a "politically correct" view.)
To my understanding Historical documents are exempt from this. Wolfenstein was banned in the end because the symbols where used in "Entertainment". If it is a historical drama in which the Symbols appear this seems to be permissible as well. If you put one on your jacket though and walk around with it in the streets they can get you. Michael -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBP+2q3mlCnxcrW2uuEQLSggCfYUtI+BIz6KVZzpWHUyq28DpGEm8AoME9 3OJy6lG0zwAsFacIwujAZswI =/pq7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Dec 27, 2003, at 7:52 AM, Michael Kalus wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 27-Dec-03, at 9:53 AM, Tyler Durden wrote:
"All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D"."
Interesting. So even if the swatsika is protrayed as a bad thing (to the point of practically being a bullseye) it's banned.
So...can you have swastikas in Textbooks? Perhaps 100 years from now the Holocaust will be forgotten. Of course, that'll make Tim May happy because then it could happen all over again.
So a question for you: If I want to write a book on the history of the swastika, or teach about the holocuast in Germany, do I need a license or something? (And let's just assume I have a "politically correct" view.)
To my understanding Historical documents are exempt from this.
Jew groups have "demanded" that Microsoft modify its symbol font sets to remove swastikas. Part of a CNN report on this flap: "The swastika, which was made infamous by Nazi Germany, was included in Microsoft's "Bookshelf Symbol 7" font. That font was derived from a Japanese font set, said Microsoft Office product manager Simon Marks. "Microsoft said it will release other tools at a later date to remove only the offending characters. "A form of the swastika has been used in the Buddhist religion to symbolize the feet or footprints of the Buddha. The symbol, which was also used widely in the ancient world including Mesopotamia, Scandinavia, India and the Americas, became common in China and Japan with the spread of Buddhism." So, the racialist demands of a sect of dreidl-spinning weirdos is now being used to affect even academic scholarship: the day will soon be upon where swastikas are removed even from Buddhist, Scandinavian, Indian, etc. texts, and where scholars who wish to write about them must blank out they symbol and refer to it as the "s symbol," analogous to the way negroes freely call other negroes "niggers" and "niggaz" and "nigga hoes," but "demand" that whites refer to the words as "the n word." Now that the Jews dominate Germany once again, time for book burning of any book which offends the Jews? --Tim May
On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 10:52:57AM -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
If it is a historical drama in which the Symbols appear this seems to be permissible as well. If you put one on your jacket though and walk around with it in the streets they can get you.
I guess "The Producers" will never make it to Berlin. It's really funny. Your loss.
On Dec 27, 2003, at 6:53 AM, Tyler Durden wrote:
"All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D"."
Interesting. So even if the swatsika is protrayed as a bad thing (to the point of practically being a bullseye) it's banned.
So...can you have swastikas in Textbooks? Perhaps 100 years from now the Holocaust will be forgotten. Of course, that'll make Tim May happy because then it could happen all over again.
Nonsense. The problem with the Holocaust was not because people were expressing their opinions about Jews, their habits, etc., or having "un-PC" thoughts about their neighbors. In fact, the so-called anti-Semitism in Germany in the 1920s and 30s was less pronounced than in other European countries, notably France. The issue with the Holocaust, as with the suppression of the Kulaks in Soviet Russia, as with the forced starvation of entire provinces of tens of millions of people by Mao, was directly attributable to STATE POWER. In other words, the problem was that Hitler, Eichmann, Goebbels, etc. could have their bureaucrats meet at Wansee to implement the Final Solution. In a decentralized political system, one with constitutional protections for speech, movement, association, gun ownership, property accumulation, etc., such "purges" and "pogroms" and "final solutions" are much more difficult to carry out. And had the Jews spent more time on self-defense, on matters martial instead of matters Talmudic, they might not have been such easy pickings and gone so readily into the cattle cars headed east. By the way, practically speaking, banning the swastika and outlawing any expression of admiration for Hitler just makes these things more attractive to young kids. Duh. --Tim May, who counts more on the Constitution to limit the power of government (though these limits are falling, year by year) than he does in some ban on putting swastikas in books or on armbands
#1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim (Gentiles) is like killing a wild animal." #2. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated." #3. Yebamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age." #4. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed." #5. Yebamoth 98a: "All gentile children are animals." #6. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean." #7. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."
participants (4)
-
BillyGOTO -
Michael Kalus -
Tim May -
Tyler Durden