At 02:07 PM 1/6/02 -0800, Petro wrote:
Second, what makes you aware that there is someone in your home? Usually it's noises they are making (I would assume). Have you ever listened to your house at night? Every place I've lived there are all sorts of mechanical noises off and on all night long.
Which your nervous system has learned. Other sounds it hasn't. The subtle click of the cocker engaging will (a) be
lost in the other noises and (b) is innocuous enough that they probably won't.
Yes, since the invaders have not learned what's 'normal'. If it was something I worried about (I don't keep a loaded
firearm in the house for home protection at this point, I'm not high enough profile for the Feebs or the BATF to want to raid my "compound", nor am I a sufficient irritant to the local Gestapo, and my neighborhood is relative free of home burglary/home invasion type crimes that I feel it is better to keep the guns in a locker than on my bedside table)
Me too, similar circumstance, with a kid in the house too, though I'm a little ashamed to admit it -its like decrying those who don't get vaccines and then not getting one yourself. But (using the analogy again) maybe the frail shouldn't get vaccinated because of danger to selves. (Assuming rational frail.) I'm thinking about a high-up clock-safe though. Or a more expensive (less reliable) finger-safe by the door. All you P7 heads are too elite for me, but to each their own. I've collected from NAA .22 to a wide (12 round) Makharov to H & K. No .45's; so sue me :-) Ballistopunk
Some anonymous forger allegedly replied to Petro along the lines of:
The subtle click of the cocker engaging will (a) be lost in the other noises and (b) is innocuous enough that they probably won't.
Yes, since the invaders have not learned what's 'normal'.
That's the fun of the traditional pump-action shotgun. *Everybody* knows what one of those sounds like, though if you need to swing it around in your house, it's easier if it's a sawed-off, at least if the Feds weren't the ones who talked you into sawing it off.
If it was something I worried about (I don't keep a loaded
firearm in the house for home protection at this point,
Nor do I. If the neighbor's kid wants to steal my overweight television or 233-MHz PC, it's not worth killing him for, and I think he's got the sense not to sneak in when we're home. And the time cops broke into my house, they were looking for him, not me, and it was much safer to deal with them by yelling at them about not letting the cats out than shooting them, though it was way out of their experience band... I do keep a loaded fire extinguisher by the bed. Most people don't know the sound of one of those going off, or the effects of getting hit in the face by the blast, though they may know how to react to the blunt end of one if the previous effects haven't distracted them, and I can shoot first and ask questions later.
On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:37 PM, Bill Stewart wrote:
Some anonymous forger allegedly replied to Petro along the lines of:
The subtle click of the cocker engaging will (a) be lost in the other noises and (b) is innocuous enough that they probably won't.
Yes, since the invaders have not learned what's 'normal'. That's the fun of the traditional pump-action shotgun. *Everybody* knows what one of those sounds like,
And if they are armed (and so inclined), they now know where to aim and start shooting.
Nor do I. If the neighbor's kid wants to steal my overweight television or 233-MHz PC, it's not worth killing him for,
There are only 3 things in my home worth killing to protect: (1) My wife. (2) My self. (3) My guns. A thief can have the TV (take my TV...Please), the stereo (Don't touch the CDs or albums tho'), the computers etc. but I cannot let a thief take the guns out of the house while I'm alive to prevent it. Stolen guns rarely get used for "good". As to the other two, well, that's almost axiomatic.
I do keep a loaded fire extinguisher by the bed.
What kind?
Most people don't know the sound of one of those going off, or the effects of getting hit in the face by the blast, though they may know how to react to the blunt end of one if the previous effects haven't distracted them, and I can shoot first and ask questions later.
I don't know, Fire extinguishers can be lethal, just ask that kid in Italy... -- "Those without creative minds and agile fingers are of course welcome to hurry up with my fries. And they'll probably use a GUI to take my order, too." - Tom Christiansen
On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Petro wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:37 PM, Bill Stewart wrote:
Nor do I. If the neighbor's kid wants to steal my overweight television or 233-MHz PC, it's not worth killing him for,
Bill is of course welcome to invite the neighbor's kids to steal his stuff. My mileage varies. I think it is a moral necessity to kill anyone trying to steal anything (beyond the utterly trivial or confusable, e.g., one should not kill someone picking up a toy left out in the yard...might be a mistake, he might be trying to return it, etc.). Someone stealing a television or PC has certainly earned killing. This is what strong crypto will make more possible: the deliverance of strong vengeance, untraceably. (Hint: This preceeded Jimbell by many years.) Fact is, many people have already earned killing. The only reason we cannot dispose of them is that liberal shits interfere with vengeance.
There are only 3 things in my home worth killing to protect: (1) My wife. (2) My self. (3) My guns.
Again, my mileage varies. And since I decide what is important to me, it's "my house, my rules."
I don't mind that a lot of people are liberal pansies who believe thieves are not worthy of killing. However, if they help to pass laws restricting my own choices, then they have earned killing themselves. Certainly nearly every member, with but a handful of exceptions, of Congress has earned the death penalty many times over. --Tim May "How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?" --Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago
At 04:11 PM 1/7/02 -0800, Tim May wrote:
On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:37 PM, Bill Stewart wrote:
Nor do I. If the neighbor's kid wants to steal my overweight television or 233-MHz PC, it's not worth killing him for,
Bill is of course welcome to invite the neighbor's kids to steal his stuff.
My mileage varies.
I think it is a moral necessity to kill anyone trying to steal anything (beyond the utterly trivial or confusable, e.g., one should not kill someone picking up a toy left out in the yard...might be a mistake, he might be trying to return it, etc.).
In fact burglary is generally treated as a more serious crime than mere theft (the taking and asportation of the personal property of another) because it involves invasion of the home (at Common Law). Though legislatures have expanded burglary to include businesses and even cars at Common Law it was "the breaking and entering of the dwelling house of another with intent to commit a felony therein." It is serious because one may be vulnerable (asleep) at home and anyone criminal enough to break into your home is probably capable of doing very bad things. It's quite a major breach of the duty of peace that we owe others (who haven't done anything to us). DCF
On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:12 PM, Anonymous User wrote:
At 02:07 PM 1/6/02 -0800, Petro wrote:
Second, what makes you aware that there is someone in your home? Usually it's noises they are making (I would assume). Have you ever listened to your house at night? Every place I've lived there are all sorts of mechanical noises off and on all night long. Which your nervous system has learned. Other sounds it hasn't. The subtle click of the cocker engaging will (a) be lost in the other noises and (b) is innocuous enough that they probably won't. Yes, since the invaders have not learned what's 'normal'.
If you're the type of person who spends time in other peoples homes while they're sleeping or away, I expect you've gotten used to many of these sounds. Or you're oblivious to them.
If it was something I worried about (I don't keep a loaded
firearm in the house for home protection at this point, I'm not high enough profile for the Feebs or the BATF to want to raid my "compound", nor am I a sufficient irritant to the local Gestapo, and my neighborhood is relative free of home burglary/home invasion type crimes that I feel it is better to keep the guns in a locker than on my bedside table)
Me too, similar circumstance, with a kid in the house too, though I'm a little ashamed to admit it -its like decrying those who don't get vaccines and then not getting one yourself. But (using the analogy again) maybe the frail shouldn't get vaccinated because of danger to selves. (Assuming rational frail.) I'm thinking about a high-up clock-safe though. Or a more expensive (less reliable) finger-safe by the door.
There are 3 cases why one would keep a loaded firearm in the house for self defense--well, at least three, but three general cases is all I can think of off the top of my head: (1) Bad Neighborhood: The area that one lives in has a high incidence of B&E/Home Invasion, and one is afraid that their home will be hit. While this is a *very* good reason to have a loaded firearm close at hand, quite frankly there is a higher chance that the home will be burgled while you are away. Smart thing to do is move to a less dangerous neighborhood. (2) One has brought oneself to the notice of the kind of people who can use force with little or no repercussion, be that government or any other gang of thugs, and one wants to "go down fighting". (lets' face it, no matter how good you are, no matter how fast and accurate, you aren't going to win a firefight with the kind and number of troops the government, be it city, state, or federal is going to throw at you, all you can hope to do is repel the first attack, and take more of them than there are of you). In this case, there isn't a lot you can do. (3) One has developed a NGO enemy of some kind, either you did something to piss off the kind of person who will crawl in your window one night and slit your throat. Lock and load--there is nothing else you can do. I guess (thinking a little further) that there are 2 other cases: (4) One is doing something that may bring #3 to come about. (Don't do that) (5) Being Prepared.
All you P7 heads are too elite for me, but to each their own. I've collected from NAA .22 to a wide (12 round) Makharov to H & K. No .45's; so sue me :-)
Nothing special about the .45 acp. -- "Those without creative minds and agile fingers are of course welcome to hurry up with my fries. And they'll probably use a GUI to take my order, too." - Tom Christiansen
participants (5)
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Anonymous User -
Bill Stewart -
Duncan Frissell -
Petro -
Tim May