Re: Why Gnutella Can't Scale. No, Really
Jordan Ritter (napster co-founder) wrote this, which RAH forwarded to the DBS list. http://www.monkey.org/~dugsong/mirror/gnutella.html So I'm presuming why people compare gnutella favorably to napster is because napster is flawed at a different level: it is not robust against legal attack. The very recent developments highlight the fragility of the napster model. This is not a criticism of napster or gnutella, but comparing them directly is difficult, gnutella is trying to do a much harder thing. It is typically much easier to design, and build hierarchical systems. Fully distributed algorithms and protocols with good characteristics are hard to design. But distributed systems _can_ be designed, and to some extent their performance and scalability predicted. So Gnutella has it's problems. However I wouldn't say that distributed sharing can't work, just that the first version of Gnutella wasn't very scalable. There are other systems: FreeNet, MojoNation, which perhaps are better. For one set of commentators the interesting factor is the ability of the distributed document space to be censor resistant; it's one major part of the application which generates the hype. So Napster doomed itself by being scalable enough to get enough users that it generated enough press (mostly centered around distribution of arguably copyrighted materials) to make the media industry notice it and the predictable result follows. It may be that Napster will continue in the form of the open napster clones, even if Napster the company is prevented. Anyone can start napster servers at this point. So this is the short term easier thing to do: create lots of reasonably large individually hierarchical napster clones. We know the web is reasonably censor resistant, web pages get shut down, but the content resurfaces at other sites, in different jurisdictions, etc. As long as there is an interest (and there clearly is), new servers will pop up faster than the censors can shut them down. Adam Personal opinions only, of course
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Adam Back wrote:
It may be that Napster will continue in the form of the open napster clones, even if Napster the company is prevented. Anyone can start napster servers at this point.
I don't know if it implements exactly the same protocol, but SuSE 7.1 (released on the 12th of February, which is an interesting date considering the timing of the napster ruling) contains something called "gnapster". check http://www.suse.com. I haven't downloaded it yet; I'll see what it is next time I'm building a new box. Ray
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 10:36:31AM -0800, Ray Dillinger wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Adam Back wrote:
It may be that Napster will continue in the form of the open napster clones, even if Napster the company is prevented. Anyone can start napster servers at this point.
I don't know if it implements exactly the same protocol, but SuSE 7.1 (released on the 12th of February, which is an interesting date considering the timing of the napster ruling) contains something called "gnapster".
check http://www.suse.com.
I haven't downloaded it yet; I'll see what it is next time I'm building a new box.
It's a GTK/Gnome Napster client - see <http://freshmeat.net/projects/gnapster/> for more. It's been around for a few months at least - it seems to run fine under FreeBSD, too. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@netbox.com PO Box 897 Oakland CA 94604
Ray Dillinger wrote:
I don't know if it implements exactly the same protocol, but SuSE 7.1 (released on the 12th of February, which is an interesting date considering the timing of the napster ruling) contains something called "gnapster".
gnapster is a gtk-napster client. I'm pretty sure it uses the same protocol, since it connects to the main napster servers. :)
Take a look at: http://opennap.sourceforge.net Adam On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 10:36:31AM -0800, Ray Dillinger wrote:
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Adam Back wrote:
It may be that Napster will continue in the form of the open napster clones, even if Napster the company is prevented. Anyone can start napster servers at this point.
I don't know if it implements exactly the same protocol, but SuSE 7.1 (released on the 12th of February, which is an interesting date considering the timing of the napster ruling) contains something called "gnapster".
check http://www.suse.com.
Also imesh (http://www.imesh.com) seems to work ok. No details of how it works, but it has a reasonable selection of music (and porn videos by the look of it) and is faster than gnutella. I guess a big thing going for distributed file sharing is the interest level. These napster a-like people (imesh) claim to have 4 million users. If they get closed down next there are lots of others. I figure the thought police have lost already. Adam On Sat, Feb 24, 2001 at 10:30:46PM -0400, Adam Back wrote:
Take a look at:
participants (4)
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Adam Back
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Greg Broiles
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Ray Dillinger
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Tom