-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eric wrote:
22 caliber four-shot pistol hidden inside a cell phone, uncovered during police raids in Europe.
"Cell phone users will have to be made aware that reaching for their phones in some circumstances could be misinterpreted as a threat by authorities"
Not surprising, since cell phone holster decoys have been around for ages. Why settle for a .22 when you could be packing a Glock 30? Like this... Holster Solutions Concealed Carry for Today's Lifestyle "Now you can own the same, comfortable, and accessible holster that intelligence agencies, security forces, and professional bodyguards worldwide have had for years! Our patented Executive Series Holsters look exactly like a cellular phone and pager that are nicely held in a durable, quality leather case." http://www.holstersolutions.com/product.htm ~F. *** He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - --Thomas Paine -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPC0GGfg5Tuca7bfvEQLJ6wCgvWZbxuctVpvYLNXk7Ih6Fg3+ODEAnjga OBgbpDcvOXTZxld+dwwJgLNM =3d6c -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 06:54 PM 12/28/01 -0500, Faustine wrote:
Not surprising, since cell phone holster decoys have been around for ages. Why settle for a .22 when you could be packing a Glock 30? Like this...
Better stealth. I like the NAA .22 belt buckle. Can also fit inside a beeper case. Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking.
At 7:33 AM -0800 12/29/01, David Honig wrote:
Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking.
Actually they're fond of using the single action Beretta model 70s in .22lr. I believe that's what arms designer Gerald Bull was killed with. <http://216.117.150.77/beretta/70_us.html>. Regards, Matt ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************
At 02:52 PM 12/30/01 -0500, Matthew Gaylor wrote:
At 7:33 AM -0800 12/29/01, David Honig wrote:
Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking.
Actually they're fond of using the single action Beretta model 70s in .22lr. I believe that's what arms designer Gerald Bull was killed with. <http://216.117.150.77/beretta/70_us.html>.
The motivation I understood for the B 22's is that the tip up barrel means you don't have to rack a slide.
This makes little sense. There are a great many .22 pistols which have external hammers or an sufficient safety. Why would you have to rack a slide, other than when you first loaded. With most, if not all, semi-auto handguns, you always carry a round in the chamber anyway, for one, to be ready, for two because it's one more round. Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber. David Honig wrote:
At 02:52 PM 12/30/01 -0500, Matthew Gaylor wrote:
At 7:33 AM -0800 12/29/01, David Honig wrote:
Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking.
Actually they're fond of using the single action Beretta model 70s in .22lr. I believe that's what arms designer Gerald Bull was killed with. <http://216.117.150.77/beretta/70_us.html>.
The motivation I understood for the B 22's is that the tip up barrel means you don't have to rack a slide.
-- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:37 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber.
Last I heard the Isreali military still did. An empty chamber was US military standard carry until the switch from 1911 the Beretta. The military was the last to hear about the Modern Technique of the Pistol. David Neilson
At 8:01 PM -0600 12/30/01, david wrote:
On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:37 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber.
Last I heard the Isreali military still did.
This is correct- Col. Cooper had some interesting things to say about the Israelis- <http://www.jpate.freeserve.co.uk/JeffCooper/jeff5_7.html> "A couple of correspondents have asked us recently what we think of the Israeli "flat stance" in defensive pistol shooting. If you have seen the training films you know that the Israeli procedure is to rotate the pistol 90 degrees to the left so as to make it easier to operate the slide when the pistol is pointed at the target. It has been pointed out to me that a number of cinema presentations have featured this technique - apparently in an attempt to latch onto anything new. It happens that Mossad, the Israeli attack squad, fancies the use of the 22 pistol as a murder weapon. This is quite sound when the pistol is used in a totally offensive mode, since the subject is confronted just out of arm's length and hit ten times quickly in the chest area. Ten 22-caliber holes in the thorax are fatal, as any qualified thoracic surgeon will tell you. In employing this system the weapon is carried in Condition 3 until the moment of confrontation, whereupon it is drawn, pointed straight out and the action is racked with the left hand. This is somewhat easier to do if the weapon is held flat rather than vertically. Accuracy does not matter and sights do not matter. Ten quick hits will do the job, whereupon the agent drops the pistol at the scene (for the laboratory to puzzle over) and walks quickly away. Since the pistol is a totally defensive weapon, this Israeli flat technique is of only academic interest to us." Regards, Matt- ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************
Hmmm, I'll bet it'd just spoil their day if that first round jammed at the chamber mouth, eh? As .22's are want to do, especially the first round, when the mag spring is at it's tightest and the slide not coming quite full force. Sometimes a .22, being a soft lead bullet, jams particularly hard and is a bitch to clear quickly. But you already knew that, right? Matthew Gaylor wrote:
At 8:01 PM -0600 12/30/01, david wrote:
On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:37 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber.
Last I heard the Isreali military still did.
This is correct-
Col. Cooper had some interesting things to say about the Israelis-
<http://www.jpate.freeserve.co.uk/JeffCooper/jeff5_7.html>
"A couple of correspondents have asked us recently what we think of the Israeli "flat stance" in defensive pistol shooting. If you have seen the training films you know that the Israeli procedure is to rotate the pistol 90 degrees to the left so as to make it easier to operate the slide when the pistol is pointed at the target. It has been pointed out to me that a number of cinema presentations have featured this technique - apparently in an attempt to latch onto anything new.
It happens that Mossad, the Israeli attack squad, fancies the use of the 22 pistol as a murder weapon. This is quite sound when the pistol is used in a totally offensive mode, since the subject is confronted just out of arm's length and hit ten times quickly in the chest area. Ten 22-caliber holes in the thorax are fatal, as any qualified thoracic surgeon will tell you. In employing this system the weapon is carried in Condition 3 until the moment of confrontation, whereupon it is drawn, pointed straight out and the action is racked with the left hand. This is somewhat easier to do if the weapon is held flat rather than vertically. Accuracy does not matter and sights do not matter. Ten quick hits will do the job, whereupon the agent drops the pistol at the scene (for the laboratory to puzzle over) and walks quickly away.
Since the pistol is a totally defensive weapon, this Israeli flat technique is of only academic interest to us."
Regards, Matt-
************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************
-- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
On Sunday, December 30, 2001, at 06:01 PM, david wrote:
On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:37 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber.
Last I heard the Isreali military still did. An empty chamber was US military standard carry until the switch from 1911 the Beretta. The military was the last to hear about the Modern Technique of the Pistol.
Many European police departments also insist on condition 2 carry. In fact if you look at the slide on a CZ100, there is an odd "dongle" or lump between the rear sight and the ejection port. Rumor has it that this dongle is intended to be used to engage the slide on the pistol belt to rack the first round into the chamber enabling a patrol officer to bring his pistol into action single handed (apparently many European officers also tend to work with police dogs, and having one hand on the leash means it can't be used to rack the slide). -- "Those without creative minds and agile fingers are of course welcome to hurry up with my fries. And they'll probably use a GUI to take my order, too." - Tom Christiansen
At 07:37 PM 12/30/01 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote:
This makes little sense. There are a great many .22 pistols which have external hammers or an sufficient safety. Why would you have to rack a slide, other than when you first loaded. With most, if not all, semi-auto handguns, you always carry a round in the chamber anyway, for one, to be ready, for two because it's one more round. Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber.
Ok. I have no personal knowledge. Fentanyl squirts in the ear are subtler unless you're busted.
participants (6)
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david -
David Honig -
Faustine -
Harmon Seaver -
Matthew Gaylor -
Petro