---------- From: Ray Dillinger[SMTP:bear@sonic.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:36 PM Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: <quoting someone who is not participating in this discussion>

...

"The property in question here is geostationary," said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary satellites sit above the equator in a fixed position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So the satellites we're talking about here are not movable property."

Actually, there's a curious legal precedent which might help the satellite holders. One of the NASA probes (perhaps the atmospheric probe to Jupiter? Did we have a Venus probe?) had an instrument window made of diamond. The fairly large diamond used drew considerable import duty when it was brought into the US, but that duty was returned after the launch, since the diamond had been 're-exported'. This seems to my IANAL logic to set a precedent that an asset in space is not in the US.

Since the equator does not pass through California, it follows that any property hanging above a point on the equator is NOT within the borders of California -- no matter how far up you extend them. So I doubt the claim of jurisdiction. Hmmm. Maybe their theory is that because it's not within another nation's border, property owned by US citizens is subject to American Taxes. That would be bad.

Or maybe they're attempting to establish a doctrine that Americans can be charged property tax on property they hold outside the borders of the US regardless of whether it's in the borders of another country. That would be worse. At the very least it would provide substantial disincentive to retaining American citizenship. [...] Bear

Actually, the USG doesn't give a damn whether it's in the US, in another country , or neither. If they want to, they'll tax it. Expatriate US citizens have to pay income tax on foreign earned income to the US (I think only the US, Egypt, and the Phillipines do this). Even if you give up your US citizenship, the IRS expects to tax you for a further 10 years if your net worth is over $350k when you vacate your US citizenship. If you don't pay up, they might not be able to extradite you if you're now a foreigner, but they'll go after your assets in the US, or arrest you if you set foot on US soil. (13 years as an expatriate leads to some specialized knowledge :-) Peter Trei