The Cost of California Liberalism
In recent years California citizens have decided against new electric power generation projects within their jurisdiction and to enforce strict air pollution standards on any existing facilities. This is great as long as the people making this decision pay the cost. Unfortunately the cost of these decisions are not being borne only be the citizens of California. The bad decisions of the citizens of California have produced an energy crisis in what is called the Northwest for which all citizens in what is called the Northwest must pay the price. Here I sit in Vancouver BC Canada paying outrageous prices for natural gas because of the demand in California for natural gas for heating and electrical generation purposes. I feel California should pay for their previous decisions themselves, if you don't want power plants don't use power or pay the complete premium for your decision. Of course the system can never be made to work in this way so here I sit in Canada paying for bad decisions in California. Virtually Raymond D. Mereniuk Raymond@fbn.bc.ca "The Ultimate Enterprise Security Experts" http://www.fbn.bc.ca/sysecurt.html
In recent years California citizens have decided against new electric power generation projects within their jurisdiction and to enforce strict air pollution standards on any existing facilities.
This is great as long as the people making this decision pay the cost. Unfortunately the cost of these decisions are not being borne only be the citizens of California. The bad decisions of the citizens of California have produced an energy crisis in what is called the Northwest for which all citizens in what is called the Northwest must pay the price.
Here I sit in Vancouver BC Canada paying outrageous prices for natural gas because of the demand in California for natural gas for heating and electrical generation purposes. I feel California should pay for their previous decisions themselves, if you don't want power plants don't use power or pay the complete premium for your decision.
Of course the system can never be made to work in this way so here I sit in Canada paying for bad decisions in California.
I live in California, and I agree 100% with your statements. The reason we aren't "paying our fair share" has to do not with greedy corporations, but with the ignorant peasants whinging to the government. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ********************************************** "Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal authority, I keep imagining its competence." John Perry Barlow
On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:
In recent years California citizens have decided against new electric power generation projects within their jurisdiction and to enforce strict air pollution standards on any existing facilities.
This is great as long as the people making this decision pay the cost. Unfortunately the cost of these decisions are not being borne only be the citizens of California. The bad decisions of the citizens of California have produced an energy crisis in what is called the Northwest for which all citizens in what is called the Northwest must pay the price.
Then let them buy their power from the generators THEY were smart enough to vote into existance. The reality is the NW people got what they deserved. They voted to use the Cali. power grid instead of their own. No injustice or wrong has occured here because everyone got a say. You reap what you sow. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
At 08:35 AM 12/17/00 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
The reality is the NW people got what they deserved. They voted to use the Cali. power grid instead of their own.
No injustice or wrong has occured here because everyone got a say. You reap what you sow.
It's a market thing, or as liberals would say, it's about sharing. Power generation capacity on the West Coast normally balances between California air conditioning in the summer and Northwest heating in the winter, and if each area had enough capacity for all its needs, the system would be way overbuilt. I don't know if Northwesters are as aggressive Not In My Back Yarders as Californians about building power plants, but it's much more efficient to use a power grid. Except, of course, when you overload it and stress the capacity limits and have stuff catch fire in the summer... Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:
Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-)
ITYM "Wal, we can ship ya some natcherl gas, er some awl, but it's a gonna cost ya.... Tha awl bidness has its ups and downs, ya see. " :-) Bear
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:
Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-)
ITYM "Wal, we can ship ya some natcherl gas, er some awl, but it's a gonna cost ya.... Tha awl bidness has its ups and downs, ya see. " :-)
Ray, your Texas drawl sucks. Yankee's start sentences with "Well,...." and there is no Texas drawl on '...el...'. People from Kansas and Oklahoma (definitely not southern) say 'awl'. I don't know anyone who pronounces it 'natcherl', definitely no native Texan. Yankee's say 'it's a gonna', we say 'it's fixin' to'. 'Tha' isn't Texan, 'Thuh' would be. 'bidness' is a (black) yankee term, not southern. And we don't say 'ya see'. You have yankee/mid-west confused with Texas/southern. But me and my native Texas friends got a kick outta it, thanks for the giggles. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Jim Choate wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:
Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-)
ITYM "Wal, we can ship ya some natcherl gas, er some awl, but it's a gonna cost ya.... Tha awl bidness has its ups and downs, ya see. " :-)
Ray, your Texas drawl sucks.
Yeah, maybe. But it's still true that the city folks get all high and mighty and superior until they need food or power, and then all of a sudden they're willing to play nice with the rednecks and hillbillies, drawls and all. I think it's darned funny myself, and coming from an oil-producing area, I always have. I was thinking of a particular person I used to know when I typed that. It's how he talks. But to be fair, he's from Louisiana. Bear
But the Bush family is from Connecticut or somewhere. They *are* Yankees. Bush I never spoke with anything like a Texan voice & Bush II has to try. Bill's parody is a parody of a parody of a Texan accent, not a parody of a Texan accent. When I worked in the Oil business some of my less sensitive English colleagues sometimes tried to parody Texan accents. They always got it very wrong - for example saying "Hooston" most Americans would instead of "Hyooston" as both we English and the Texans do (of course the name is originally Scottish (a place near Glasgow) and in it's homeland is "Hooston".) We find it hard to tell Southern US accents apart from each other and (genuinely) hard to tell Southern white accents from the sort of black voices Tim rips off so charmingly. When I actually went to Houston I found out that a whole load of people I'd thought were black on the 'phone turned out to be white, with various Southern accents, and some people I'd imagined were white were in fact black, but with middle-class northern college-educated voices. Ken Jim Choate wrote:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:
Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-)
ITYM "Wal, we can ship ya some natcherl gas, er some awl, but it's a gonna cost ya.... Tha awl bidness has its ups and downs, ya see. " :-)
Ray, your Texas drawl sucks.
Yankee's start sentences with "Well,...." and there is no Texas drawl on '...el...'.
People from Kansas and Oklahoma (definitely not southern) say 'awl'.
I don't know anyone who pronounces it 'natcherl', definitely no native Texan.
Yankee's say 'it's a gonna', we say 'it's fixin' to'.
'Tha' isn't Texan, 'Thuh' would be.
'bidness' is a (black) yankee term, not southern.
And we don't say 'ya see'.
You have yankee/mid-west confused with Texas/southern. But me and my native Texas friends got a kick outta it, thanks for the giggles.
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
At 11:58 AM +0000 12/19/00, Ken Brown wrote:
But the Bush family is from Connecticut or somewhere. They *are* Yankees. Bush I never spoke with anything like a Texan voice & Bush II has to try. Bill's parody is a parody of a parody of a Texan accent, not a parody of a Texan accent.
When I worked in the Oil business some of my less sensitive English colleagues sometimes tried to parody Texan accents. They always got it very wrong - for example saying "Hooston" most Americans would instead of "Hyooston" as both we English and the Texans do (of course the name is originally Scottish (a place near Glasgow) and in it's homeland is "Hooston".)
We find it hard to tell Southern US accents apart from each other and (genuinely) hard to tell Southern white accents from the sort of black voices Tim rips off so charmingly.
Surely everyone knows that those voices are not my own handiwork? I use the Ebonicizer. Do ya th'o't I'm joking? Just enter yo' text into da bawx at da URL http://joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp an' it will magically be transformed into Ebonics. all ye damn hood ratz.. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:
Besides, Jim, as a Texan your tradition role in discussions of natural gas policies is supposed to be to say "let the bastards freeze in the dark" :-)
Blipverts strike again. That IS exactly what I said, though not in those words. They made the decision to let others make the decision. Don't bitch to me about how unfair it is when they don't do what you think is best. There are no angels among men. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (8)
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Bill Stewart -
Jim Choate -
Ken Brown -
petro -
Ray Dillinger -
Raymond D. Mereniuk -
Reese -
Tim May