-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Faustine wrote:
Jim wrote:
C-A-C-L's would let people die from thirst before interfering in a 'free market'. Others would say screw the market and give that man a drink.
I'd give that man a drink out of my last canteen--but I sure as hell wouldn't force anyone else to.
Then you have missed a fundamental aspect of human society and the responbility (shades of Hayek) that goes along with it. Hayek, von Mises, etc. would be disappointed.
In a survival situation, nobody gives a crap about "human society", it's either a matter of conscience or it isn't. Actually if I were in that situation, I'd probably try to steal some of the water for him. But I wouldn't try to pretty up my stealing with some sanctimonious sermon about needs and obligations to the guy I have at the other end of my gun. Which what it all comes down to in the end. But if he blows me away with his twelve gauge? Well, it's his water. Should have been a little smarter. All the laws in the world will never be able to legislate away the basic fact that the strong and smart disregard and/or prey on the weak and stupid. Read the front page of any newspaper for ample proof of what people are like without the comfortable fiction of societal order. If you had ever lived on the street you would understand this firsthand. Preach on... ~Faustine. *** The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms. - --William O. Douglas, Associate Justice, US Supreme Court -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBO/q5uPg5Tuca7bfvEQJr9QCgmbvsa2GBik39XEz1sOESV/lZBwUAn1gs 3VXr+q5x/cNnWO+c0rK8g9R9 =QA+Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Faustine wrote:
Then you have missed a fundamental aspect of human society and the responbility (shades of Hayek) that goes along with it. Hayek, von Mises, etc. would be disappointed.
In a survival situation, nobody gives a crap about "human society", it's either a matter of conscience or it isn't.
Everything is a 'survival situation', some are just easier to resolve than others. False distinction on your part. Everybody with half an interest in surviving the 'survival situation' most certainly cares about 'human society'. They have a primary goal. AVOID DOG-EAT-DOG. However, CACL doesn't provide a process to do that. When faced with a crisis situation it jumps right to the 'worst case' result. The reality is that 'survival situations' are why peoople build societies. It happens to be why ALL social animals adopted that strategy, by sharing and cooperating it becomes possible to maximize the number of survivers. Something that CACL philosophy couldn't care sot about. The reality is that by refusing to force others to share you in fact exacerbate your survival situation. You claim that if somebody forces you it is wrong, yet you seem to believe it's ok to force others. So much for doing away with 'coercion'. At most CACL philosophy buys a level or two of indirection with regard to blaim. However, that doesn't remove the responsibility (re my Hayek quote on that topic a few weeks ago). CACL, as you clearly demonstrate by your responce, is focused on the 'I'.
Actually if I were in that situation, I'd probably try to steal some of the water for him.
Perfect example of why you tend toward CACL philosophy. And by the way, with no 'human society crap' there isn't any such thing as 'stealing'. There is 'taking' and 'taking against anothers wishes' but neither of these are 'stealing'.
But I wouldn't try to pretty up my stealing with some sanctimonious sermon about needs and obligations to the guy I have at the other end of my gun.
But you just did with your previous example. It's a perfect example of the CACL 'Freedom for me, but not for thee'. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (2)
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Faustine -
Jim Choate