"Keep in mind that in the eyes of some in government, only people with something to hide would bother using encryption in the first place. From that assumption flows a sea of potential abuses." No, that's not the problem. I've got plenty to hide, and that fact is no one's business but my own. The 'abuse' comes from governments who believe its their right to unhide that which you have decided is worth hiding. -TD

From: Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> To: cypherpunks@jfet.org Subject: [dave@farber.net: [IP] more on Can you be compelled to give a password? [was: Police Blotter: Laptop border searches OK'd]] Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:04:39 +0200

----- Forwarded message from David Farber <dave@farber.net> -----

From: David Farber <dave@farber.net> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:48:26 -0400 To: ip@v2.listbox.com Subject: [IP] more on Can you be compelled to give a password? [was: Police Blotter: Laptop border searches OK'd] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Reply-To: dave@farber.net

Begin forwarded message:

From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com> Date: July 28, 2006 2:40:02 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: lauren@vortex.com Subject: Re: [IP] Can you be compelled to give a password? [was: Police Blotter: Laptop border searches OK'd]

Dave, the trend is toward laws that penalize refusal to cooperate with demands for decryption keys. This concept can work in various ways. In the border case, for example, a person might be refused entry -- or perhaps suffer confiscation of related property in some cases -- if they declined to provide the keys.

In the case of criminal convictions, additional sentence and fine penalties can be imposed for uncooperative attitudes in this regard.

Keep in mind that in the eyes of some in government, only people with something to hide would bother using encryption in the first place. From that assumption flows a sea of potential abuses.

--Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@vortex.com or lauren@pfir.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, IOIC - International Open Internet Coalition - http://www.ioic.net Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com DayThink: http://daythink.vortex.com

- - -

...

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick@ianai.net> Date: July 28, 2006 2:11:45 PM EDT To: dave@farber.net Cc: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick@ianai.net> Subject: Can you be compelled to give a password? [was: Police Blotter: Laptop border searches OK'd]

On Jul 28, 2006, at 1:32 PM, David Farber wrote:

...

I don't believe it is a crime in any US Federal or State law, or in Canadian law, to set passwords and use encryption. In the US, I believe that a warrant would be necessary for law enforcement to ask for your password, but I don't know if you have to comply. IANAL.

That is a good question - Can you be compelled to give up a password? Would you mind posting it to IP, I am interested in the answer.

Seems there might be some 'self-incriminatory' arguments here. Perhaps even an "unreasonable search" argument. But IANAL.

-- TTFN, patrick

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