Nick MacDonald writes: ....

What are the odds that banking machines are actually tracking which bills they give you. If the banks then later checked out where the money was coming from, they could do some very interesting demographics... and it would be a great way to help catch bank machine criminals...

This scheme would require cooperation/collusion by the stores that accept the money, require that they scan the money right there at the counter or at least segregate the cash for later scanning. I haven't seen either capability. More to the point, cash transactions almost never involve producing ID, so how will the store know who you are, even if it (somehow) could track the bills? (Ah, the *video surveillance cameras* in so many stores! It suddenly becomes clear! The ATM machines take your picture automatically--you knew this, didn't you?--and send the images to Fort Meade for correlation with the 7-11 camera pictures. This way they see who's buying Twinkies and copies of "Illuminatus!" and can fnord trace their movements. Fnord.) By the way, I *do* suspect electronic transactions will become much more common, perhaps even mandatory, over the next decade. Social security and welfare payments may be deposited electronically (to prevent theft and fraud) and even "poor people" will then have credit or debit cards. This eliminates the last practical argument for allowing cash. There will be the usual objections, but the "War on Drugs" and the war on the underground economy, money laundering, etc., will be cited as a more pressing concern than the "freedom" to use cash. An insistence on using cash, when electronic transactions are *so much more convenient* will be see at best as an eccentricity and at worst as grounds for further investigation. (Practically, cash probably cannot be simply outlawed. But stores may be required to fill out additional forms for cash, including the ID of the cash-paying customer. Merchants may charge a fee for cash (reversing the current economics), and may even refuse cash transactions above a certain value. If you doubt this can happen, look at the trend of laws regarding cash transactions at banks, jewelry stores, and car lots. The effect may be a phase trasition away from cash in amounts greater than pocket change. I've already noticed confusion on the faces of store clerks when I've paid for moderatelly expensive items with folding money.) We Cypherpunks need to ensure our plans for digital money are not closed off by these sorts of moves. (I'm not sure what we need to do, or can do, but it's worth thinking about.) -Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

Jeremy R. Smith writes:

I too have noticed a growing trend in the use of electronic money for a wide range of transactions. For example. I have an ATM card that was issued on my checking account. With it, I can make purchases at any place displaying the Interlink symbol. This includes gas stations, fast food places, and a lot of common stores such as the Good Guys, Circuit City, etc. Personally, I find this way of doing business a lot more conveinent than carrying cash money. No large demoninations to worry

Can you say "dossier society". Hope you don't buy cigarettes or booze, or you may find that you can't purchase health insurance. The problem is that *you* are tied to the card. Please note that debit and credit cards were designed primarily from the point of view of the vendors and merchants. Not the consumers. Eric Blossom