CDR: Two items, of varying relevance to the list
Two items which may have only slight relevance to the list. I've been waiting for an opportunity to mention them in context... First, Judea Pearl's "Causality." A mix of logic, AI, and ontology. Closely related to issues of belief and causality. (Some of you may know of my interest in Dempster-Shafer belief theory...this is closely related.) Second, just watched "Lola rennt," aka "Run, Lola, Run," for the fourth or fifth time. Saw it in a theater the first time, a year or so ago. It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign expressions, and so, it seems, has German. Of these two points, the Pearl book is more significant, ultimately. But the film has its place. Sorry there is no "crypto significance" here. No S-box details, no Rijndael details. TS. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
----- Original Message ----- From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign expressions, and so, it seems, has German.
Maybe they've decided they need more "sprechenraum". Jim Bell
jim bell wrote:
It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign expressions, and so, it seems, has German.
Maybe they've decided they need more "sprechenraum".
"sprachraum", actually. :) german has always accepted a lot of foreign terms. during the late middle ages, it was mostly french, in modern times it's mostly english. I guess it comes from sitting in the middle of a continent (borders to 9 other countries) - you just can't close yourself off against foreign influence.
Tom Vogt wrote:
jim bell wrote:
It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign expressions, and so, it seems, has German.
Maybe they've decided they need more "sprechenraum".
"sprachraum", actually. :)
german has always accepted a lot of foreign terms. during the late middle ages, it was mostly french, in modern times it's mostly english. I guess it comes from sitting in the middle of a continent (borders to 9 other countries) - you just can't close yourself off against foreign influence.
But we're on the edge of a continent and we've absorbed more foreign words than *you* :-) How many languages are there where even a well-educated person would only be expected to know about a quarter of the words in the dictionary? And even that means you are learning 10-20 words a day for your entire life. In fact more than anybody & its being going on a long time. Loads of possible reasons (none of which are more than Just So Stories as far as I know) - way back when Christian missionaries turned up they adapted English words (same applies to German AFAIK) to describe specifically Christian things. Most European countries adapted the Latin or Greek rather than inventing their own. So we have sets of words like easter/passiontide rood/cross atonement/reconciliation/redemption/salvation... loads of words to mean the same, or similar things - and later on there seemed to be a similar sharing of words between English & Norse (& sometimes Dutch/Low German as well). So "ship", "skiff" and "skip" (in the sense of a large container) all survive, but mean slightly different things. As do "shirt" and "skirt". - then the famous layering of courtly Norman French on top of homely English so that we got the only language that has different words for dead animals and live - The recent English habit of not changing foreign spellings, so you can spot Latin, Greek, French etc. words in writing & preservbe a sense of their differentness. (slightly diluted in north America: sulphur/sulfur yacht/yaucht gaol/jail (though in the UK we mostly write "jail" these says) pyjama/pajama) - but most of all the sense that it is bad style to use the same word (except for little ones) more than once in a sentence. Does German do that?
Ken Brown wrote:
But we're on the edge of a continent and we've absorbed more foreign words than *you* :-)
I wasn't under that impression, so far.
- and later on there seemed to be a similar sharing of words between English & Norse (& sometimes Dutch/Low German as well). So "ship", "skiff" and "skip" (in the sense of a large container) all survive, but mean slightly different things. As do "shirt" and "skirt".
living in northern germany, I should add that low german (the local dialect) is very similiar to english in some respects. even though I can hardly speak it, I can immediatly think of a dozen or so words where the english equivalent is closer than the (high) german one.
- but most of all the sense that it is bad style to use the same word (except for little ones) more than once in a sentence. Does German do that?
yes, it is. maybe to a lesser degree, because you DO stay consistent with the main topic, but it is generally considered bad style to be repetitive without need, and german classes spend some time on the topic, drawing up lists of words with similiar meanings that can be used for variety. the most famous one is "speak", which has a LONG list of similiar words in pretty much every language.
participants (4)
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jim bell -
Ken Brown -
Tim May -
Tom Vogt