At 11:13 AM 12/10/04 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote:
Because nodes are not geographically constrained to US jurisdiction?
Name a place which is not subject to US juridiction? Ok, Iran, N Kr, until we pull a regime change (tm) on them. Yeah, they have a lot of 'net bandwidth, right. Some of the ex-soviets perhaps, only because the rubles / threats from the mafia exceed the rubles from the USG. Otherwise our "advisors" will help you "Round Up" your local cash crops, you how to shoot down missionaries, teach you how to gore an election. Even the chinese want trade enough to pander and are not unwilling to enforce a police state. Meanwhile all your Pakis are belong to u$ (except for those that don't, but hide the fact and um Sheik Yerbouti). And if extradition isn't happening fast enough, we'll send a DEA agent or snatch-und-grab specops to kidnap them. Hegemony isn't just for breakfast anymore. If you think you're not under Bush's boot, you just haven't pissed him off enough, yet.
On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 06:53:26AM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Name a place which is not subject to US juridiction? Ok, Iran, N Kr,
Most places outside US which are not banana republics. I'm living in one.
until we pull a regime change (tm) on them. Yeah, they have a lot of 'net bandwidth, right.
And if extradition isn't happening fast enough, we'll send a DEA agent or snatch-und-grab specops to kidnap them.
What, all this to shut down a remop? Could as well reprogram one of these aging ICBMs...
Hegemony isn't just for breakfast anymore. If you think you're not under Bush's boot, you just haven't pissed him off enough, yet.
Which threat model? Individual remop, a country, a bloc? Last time I looked US deficit was well on the way to turn thalers into Soviet-era paper. It is somewhat hard to posture as a world hegemon if everybody knows you're only operating because every significant investor is propping you up, since running danger of losing their entire investment (in for a penny...). If it's going to give, it's going to be a landslide. Of course, then the entire house of cards is going to crash down, which would suck. It could even bring down the tigers/dragons, though they probably have enough own momentum by now. -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
-- On 10 Dec 2004 at 6:53, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Name a place which is not subject to US juridiction? Ok, Iran, N Kr, until we pull a regime change (tm) on them. Yeah, they have a lot of 'net bandwidth, right.
If Afghanistan was subject to US jurisdiction, it would not have a bumper opium crop. If Saudi Arabia was subject to US jurisdiction, they would not be funding terrorism. If Israel was subject to US jurisdiction, they would be less cavalier about murdering American trouble makers. The reason that taliban caught in Afghanistan, and people with the wrong accent caught in Afghanistan, tend to wind up in Guantanamo Bay is not because Afghan warlords are taking orders from US overlords, it is because Afghan warlords are fighting a holy war against the same people who are our enemies. Similarly Sistani is busily subverting the US favored parties in Iraq, at the same time he is busily subverting US enemies in Iran. He has his own agenda, which on some matters agrees with the US agenda, and others contradicts the US agenda. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 2c9x3EgsLT44LpYQQUlGud/yFuYB783XVxKtOPRY 4FmUuq0u9cIG0iHSOk5xjllcON90ZXsAI+IcJG7X8
At 02:29 PM 12/11/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
If Afghanistan was subject to US jurisdiction, it would not have a bumper opium crop. If Saudi Arabia was subject to US jurisdiction, they would not be funding terrorism. [...]
The reason that taliban caught in Afghanistan, and people with the wrong accent caught in Afghanistan, tend to wind up in Guantanamo Bay is not because Afghan warlords are taking orders from US overlords, it is because Afghan warlords are fighting a holy war against the same people who are our enemies.
But the Taliban were the US warlords' *friends*. After all, that's why the US paid them $43m for doing such a great job in their holy war against opium farmers. ---- Bill Stewart bill.stewart@pobox.com
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
If Afghanistan was subject to US jurisdiction, it would not have a bumper opium crop.
This assumes that the US wants the opium trade stopped. Be serious. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
-- James A. Donald:
The reason that taliban caught in Afghanistan, and people with the wrong accent caught in Afghanistan, tend to wind up in Guantanamo Bay is not because Afghan warlords are taking orders from US overlords, it is because Afghan warlords are fighting a holy war against the same people who are our enemies.
Bill Stewart:
But the Taliban were the US warlords' *friends*
Learn some history. The current holy war was going at a slow burn even during the war against the Soviet Union. Once the Soviet Union fell back, any pretense of alliance was dropped, and the flames were in plain sight. These terrorists have been bugging various muslims they deem insufficiently muslim long before they were bugging the west. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG wUajaZLtoiBjJKFNy8BqbXfYOsgcNOgbhUPRDpeN 4bqrDBnbVHsw8K/4rUF8UkC0k60jpoqzZoKNYpz03
participants (5)
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Bill Stewart -
Eugen Leitl -
J.A. Terranson -
James A. Donald -
Major Variola (ret)