Let us not forget the more tangible 'value' in bombing the WTC and messing up things downtown. First of all, the companies in the WTC were, to say the least, impacted (actually, the company I work for lost 11 people and relocated to NJ for about a year)....hitting them (and their workers) was probably not considered "collateral damage" by Al Qaeda, any more than bombing German or japanese urban production centers was considered that for the allies in WWII. Next comes the financial district and Wall Street as a whole. The third (and as it turned out by far the most impactful) was the destruction of the Telecom Central Office in #4 World Trade Center, along with bringing off-line the big Verizon CO across the street. These actually caused Wall Street to be knocked off line for several days, an impact that is hard to underestimate. And while I suspect that Al-Qaeda were probably unaware in advance of the impact on Telecom, the rest was certainly a conscious decision. -TD
From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl@mfn.org> To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com> CC: "cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net> Subject: Re: Airport insanity Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:14:22 -0500 (CDT)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
"James A. Donald"
All of the terrorists came from countries that were beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help. Saudi Arabia was certainly not under attack. If they were Palestinians, and they hit the Pentagon but not the two towers, then they would be defending themselves.
John Kelsey
I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City bombing.
The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two towers. BATF had an office in the Murrah building.
Bzzzt! Try again.
There were a number of federales in the towers, INCLUDING atf, all the various branches of the armed services, and a large number of spook proxy points.
So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Was McViegh targeting people who do business with BATF?
Besides which the terrorists did not target them for doing business with Israel, but for "World Trade" - globalization and all that.
Personal knowledge?
-- Yours,
J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF
"An ill wind is stalking while evil stars whir and all the gold apples go bad to the core"
S. Plath, Temper of Time
_________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx
There are all "givens" to the rest of us - I am trying to fit these arguments into Donald's Reality Distortion Field. //Alif On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:41:45 -0400 From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> To: measl@mfn.org, jamesd@echeque.com Cc: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: Airport insanity
Let us not forget the more tangible 'value' in bombing the WTC and messing up things downtown. First of all, the companies in the WTC were, to say the least, impacted (actually, the company I work for lost 11 people and relocated to NJ for about a year)....hitting them (and their workers) was probably not considered "collateral damage" by Al Qaeda, any more than bombing German or japanese urban production centers was considered that for the allies in WWII. Next comes the financial district and Wall Street as a whole. The third (and as it turned out by far the most impactful) was the destruction of the Telecom Central Office in #4 World Trade Center, along with bringing off-line the big Verizon CO across the street. These actually caused Wall Street to be knocked off line for several days, an impact that is hard to underestimate. And while I suspect that Al-Qaeda were probably unaware in advance of the impact on Telecom, the rest was certainly a conscious decision.
-TD
From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl@mfn.org> To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com> CC: "cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net> Subject: Re: Airport insanity Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:14:22 -0500 (CDT)
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
"James A. Donald"
All of the terrorists came from countries that were beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help. Saudi Arabia was certainly not under attack. If they were Palestinians, and they hit the Pentagon but not the two towers, then they would be defending themselves.
John Kelsey
I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City bombing.
The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two towers. BATF had an office in the Murrah building.
Bzzzt! Try again.
There were a number of federales in the towers, INCLUDING atf, all the various branches of the armed services, and a large number of spook proxy points.
So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Was McViegh targeting people who do business with BATF?
Besides which the terrorists did not target them for doing business with Israel, but for "World Trade" - globalization and all that.
Personal knowledge?
-- Yours,
J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF
"An ill wind is stalking while evil stars whir and all the gold apples go bad to the core"
S. Plath, Temper of Time
_________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF "An ill wind is stalking while evil stars whir and all the gold apples go bad to the core" S. Plath, Temper of Time
-- On 23 Oct 2004 at 19:25, J.A. Terranson wrote:
There are all "givens" to the rest of us - I am trying to fit these arguments into Donald's Reality Distortion Field.
Is it also a "given" to you, as it is to Tyler, that the US attacked North Korea, and that the reason for this attack was to make Koreans poor so that Americans could be rich? Is it also a given to you that the CIA trained Bin Laden? Is it also a given to you that the CIA installed Saddam? Is it a given to you, as it is to Tyler, that the countries on the communist side of the former iron curtain were more successful economically than their neighbors or countrymen on the other side? Is it a given to you that Jews did not turn up for work in the two towers the day they fell? Is it a given to you that Arbenz was democratically elected, and that the guerrilas in Guatemala were an indigenous popular movement that could have won free and fair elections had they been permitted? Is it a given to you that Alger Hiss was framed? Perhaps you need to check some of these givens. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 2xBHaKKtew47vYubi0WVdchRmiM1osWLaPLEM3IJ 4th8Ep6rf2PcPWOoYxyby9cpMSlFehq6Z+8yzjPuc
hello, The C code for the blowfish encryption algorithm posted in Mr.Schneier's site, acocording to Michael.B still 'chokes' as it is not corrected even though the bug report, mentions that it is a fatal bug. The bug report is available at http://www.schneier.com/blowfish-bug.txt His opinion is that the code still 'chokes' in http://www.schneier.com/code/bfsh-sch.zip Though Mr.Mike Morgan in the bug report attrbutes the bug to "non-standard use of the 'union' construct", I think it is automatic type cast form type signed char to unsigned long,is responsible for this bug. Please see his comments below. Regards, Sarad A.V Forwarded on request by Michael.B --------------------------------- Also the bug IS a very serious security issue if you read into the bug doc, making Blowfish a very easy crackable cipher... and yes you are right every responsible programmer should use test vectors etc., I do, but how do I know someone else did if I can't review the code and have no other means of testing, for example with (proper - see below) test vectors? And... (you really did not read into the bug-doc)... standard test vectors DO NOT SHOW the bug. Which is why it is such an evil one, aside the extreme security loss. 150 products use Blowfish so far, as counterpane.org states, and many of them don't have a verification scheme at all. I recall a Secure Shell for example, implementing Blowfish as an optional cipher to choose from among others. Now with that (commercial) product I would choose Blowfish never more since I can't review the code or test with selected test vectors. And this is the point. The bug thing coming directly from Schneier does create a general distrust in Blowfish for me. now this is an ORIGINAL quote from the bug-describing doc taking direct from schneier's website. next, please consider this ORIGINAL paste of the ref-installation by schneier short InitializeBlowfish(char key[], short keybytes) { unsigned long data; ... //lots of code ommitted j = 0; for (i = 0; i < N + 2; ++i) { data = 0x00000000; for (k = 0; k < 4; ++k) { data = (data << 8) | key[j]; //(my comment) CHOKE! see above ... } The discussion is available here http://www.security-forums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21640&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=8 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
participants (4)
-
J.A. Terranson -
James A. Donald -
Sarad AV -
Tyler Durden