At 5:54 PM -0400 7/24/01, Faustine wrote:

Tim wrote:

...

Likewise, I know of even some Cypherpunks who have left their employers for ideological reasons. And if some have _left_ jobs, the effects are likely greater on the _recruiting_ side (where the costs of a decision are much less).

Absolutely. More than that, I try to never take a job unless I'd be willing to do it for free. All free-market principles aside, if you're just in it for the paycheck, what's the point? I'd rather do something I love that's meaningful to me than just make a pile. Even better not to have to choose at all. (Not there yet, so #1 it is...)

I liked, even greatly liked, some aspects of my job in the 70s and 80s, but there is no way I would have done it for "free." I was getting up at the crack of dawn, arriving by 8 or earlier every morning, working more or less continuously until 6 each night, often working on Saturdays, sometimes working on Sundays, to do what my bosses told me needed doing. While I could often innovate, the broad outlines of my "interests" were set by management. I believe this is mostly the case in 99% of all work environments, even ones "loved" by the workers. Very few jobs are of the form "Do what turns you on."

True, I guess--this time around, I just happen to be in the extremely lucky 1%. Any work I have to do that's somewhat of a grind is a tiny, tiny price to pay for the rest of the time I have complete freedom to work on whatever projects I want while surrounded by excellent resources: my office is so private, comfortable and well-equipped, I usually stay late every night and come in on the weekends--researching, writing, coding, studying, absolutely anything I feel like doing. In a few weeks, it's back to a full graduate courseload on top of a flexible 40 hour workweek (we set our own hours), but since my employer is actually paying 100% of the tuition, and all the coursework dovetails nicely with the research I'm doing (for myself and for them), I couldn't be happier. I'd be a fool to let an opportunity to be in an environment like this pass me over in the name of "more leisure time." Even if I were unemployed and had my absolute choice, I'd still be researching, writing, coding, studying, etc. So the paycheck and free tuition is basically just icing on the cake. I never dreamed I'd get to the point I could say that, but there it is...

What most people think of as "loving" the job is really just the result of adapting their own goals to that of the organization. It works for dogs, who also "love" their jobs, so why not for humans?

Yep, good point. But then again, there's the question of the differences in work environment between academia/nonprofit/NGO/think tank-types of places and the private sector, small businesses/corporations. Each of these sectors has a different reason-for-being, which in turn attracts different types of people. For instance, no matter how much freedom I could possibly have at a widget factory, I don't think I could ever get over the fact that the bottom line is I'm just there to make money for someone else via widgets. Plenty of dissatisfation to go around. On the other hand, the first group of institutions is different in that respect because the "end" isn't a healthy profit, it's producing ideas or some other kind of service for the "good", (define as you will). Sure, there can be a lot of overlap between the public and private sectors, but in the best-case scenario that's a large part of the motivation. In fact, I think that blending the best of the nonprofit and for-profit worlds is the key to eliminating their respective drawbacks and getting rid of government intereference alltogether. I'd be glad to take this up further, if you don't find it utterly laughable. (snip)

If you can scrape by, trading your free labor for experience isn't always a bad bargain...it's worked for me more than once, and I sometimes I eventually ended up on the payroll. News flash: some of us were on the payroll from Day One.

oh blah, blah: for the rest of us, it's just part of a strategy to get farther, faster on the continuum of doing what you want to do. If you want to be able to work at Prestegious Groups X Y or Z but they aren't hiring, what else can you do? Before you know it, you've got a resume with experience from X Y and Z on it. And since you had the guts to propose and design the internships yourself, you have better control over what you get experience in whereas Day One payrollees get stuck with the low-level stuff, longer. Use people's sense of self-interest to further your own, it's the easiest thing in the world.

I have never worked a minute of "free labor," not counting helping friends move their stuff,

you make it sound like volunteering is just busywork for dupes and suckers...

and not counting the thousands, nay, tens of thousands, of hours I have spend on lists like this one.

So when are you going to set up the Cypherpunks Mailing List 501(c)(3)? LOL! ~Faustine.