On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, J.A. Terranson wrote:

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

These tactics are as valid today as they were when Niccolo Machiavelli first set them down on paper. Why should we expect that they will become ineffective any time soon? I had hoped that the internet would change the dynamics of the vox populi, by allowing people unintermediated discussion with one another, the space to develop ideas fully and learn that they were not alone in holding particular ideas. I had hoped that the Internet would stop the ancient tactic of isolating and ostracizing those who think differently, and allow them to create forums of their own and try to evolve some kind of interacting functional cultures together that incorporated their different ideas, providing a huge set of alternatives to the prozac culture. Somehow, it all seems to have gone to shit. Advertisers have infiltrated every corner of the web, and people who think differently are being drowned out almost as effectively there as they are on television. Censorship is running rampant, and tolerance is at about the lowest ebb it's been in my lifetime. The "mosaic culture" that the internet was supposed to enable keeps having bits of it cut off, and the new cultures that people who shared different ideas were once building have fallen victim to the same stupid FUD tactics and divisive tactics and agents provocateurs and crap that have been used against similar groups in meatspace since Machiavelli's time. Well, to be honest, since before that. He was just writing about established practice. It is not, evidently, possible to enable public participation without giving the majority the tools to engage in a tyranny over the minority. Julf was forced to roll over to the scientologists. Countless ISP's who've allowed "anonymous" customers to put up web sites have been forced to roll over when some LEA put kid porn up on their servers. Even Freenet is subject to this attack; if it gets too big for the lions to be comfortable with, they'll just put a whole bunch of illegal crap on it (copyrighted software and kid porn for starters) and then have it shut down (by making it illegal to run, monitoring networks for freenet packets, etc). If they make the legal exposure bad enough, they can keep the number of people using it so tiny that it's worthless. I dunno any more. I used to think that if I could create things that made it possible for people to communicate, we would eventually find out what Earth's people (as opposed to its governments) wanted -- that governments would have to respond to vox populi instead of dictating it. Now, with the crap I've seen in the last year, it just doesn't seem worth it. The Internet Pedophile scare is obviously orchestrated, ditto the Internet Terrorist scare. The nation states are dictating vox populi again, instead of the other way around, and the last american presidential election was a sick joke. In the only remaining superpower on Earth, We've got a thief as head of state, a crook in the DOJ, and the supreme court is nothing but a bunch of rubberstamp conservatives. Despite all my best efforts, and the best efforts of hundreds or even thousands of others, there seems to be no way to give the people their own voice any more. No matter what we do, these (untranslatable) are taking it over. There's a point at which the futility of it becomes overwhelming, and I just want to start pitching bombs or something. A visceral emotinal release of the frustration, if nothing else. And I bet that's why terrorism is on the rise; there's less and less of a way to work within the bounds, so frustrated people are being driven outside them. But if I did that, of course it would be just digested into pap for the masses and used as an excuse to outlaw everything I believe in. And I won't allow myself to be used in that way if I can possibly help it. So there's going to be no bomb-throwing for me, much as I sometimes think I'd enjoy it. All I ever really wanted was governments based on the will of the people. But it turns out the people have no will and the governments can tell them that their will is whatever the hell the governments want it to be. Bear feeling discouraged today.

At 09:09 AM 3/13/01 -0800, Ray Dillinger wrote:

I had hoped that the internet would change the dynamics of the vox populi, by allowing people unintermediated discussion with one another, the space to develop ideas fully and learn that they were not alone in holding particular ideas.

people who think differently are being

drowned out almost as effectively there as they are on television. Censorship is running rampant, and tolerance is at about the lowest ebb it's been in my lifetime. The "mosaic culture" that the internet was supposed to enable keeps having bits of it cut off

Bear, the net is letting people see who / what their neighbors really are, and really are interested in. Whenever you mix cultures you find xenophobia and suppression of the minor cultures. The internet is merely stirring things up a little more. That's my long-term optimistic take on what you write, which I agree with.