If, in a capital case, where the money to pay public defenders is usually maximally available, and the appeals process, checks, and cross-checks are the more thorough than in any non-capital prosecution, you STILL get at least a 33% error rate, then what is the wrongfull conviction rate in non-capital cases, where there are far fewer appeals, and public defenders are paid a pittance?"

And of course there's the fairly obvious point that lots of those in prison "correctly" are there for drug-related "crimes". Said crimes would almost completely dissappear and drug usage would drop if many of those drugs were legalized and taxed. But God forbid that happen because what would all those policemen do for a living? Prison workers? Judges? -TD

From: "Trei, Peter" <ptrei@rsasecurity.com> To: "Steve Thompson" <steve49152@yahoo.ca>, <cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net> Subject: RE: Gripes About Airport Security Grow Louder Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:01:26 -0500

...

-----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:13 PM To: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: RE: Gripes About Airport Security Grow Louder

--- Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> wrote: [airport security]

...

More indications of an emerging 'Brazil' scenario, as opposed to a hyper-intelligent super-fascist state.

As if.

There already is a kind of intelligent super-fascist state in place thoughout much of society. My bugbears of the moment are the police and courts, so you get my take on how they are organised so as to be 'intelligent' without seeming so -- which further enables a whole lot of fraud to masqerade as process and incompetence. The super-fascist part comes about because the system avoids public accountability while also somehow evading any sort of reasonable standard of performance.

What's the error rate, that is the false arrest, prosecution, and/or conviction rate of a Western countries' judiciary and police divitions? If it's even ten percent, and it's probably much higher, then there is no reason to respect the operation and perpetuation of the system.

One chilling data point. Remember a few years ago the (pro death penalty) governor of Illinois suspended all the death sentences in has state? The reason being was that with the introduction of DNA testing, 1/3 of the people on death row were found to be innocent.

I don't know how many other innocents the state planned to murder, but presumably there were some cases where DNA evidence was not available.

If, in a capital case, where the money to pay public defenders is usually maximally available, and the appeals process, checks, and cross-checks are the more thorough than in any non-capital prosecution, you STILL get at least a 33% error rate, then what is the wrongfull conviction rate in non-capital cases, where there are far fewer appeals, and public defenders are paid a pittance?

Peter Trei

--- "Trei, Peter" <ptrei@rsasecurity.com> wrote:

...

-----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:13 PM To: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: RE: Gripes About Airport Security Grow Louder

--- Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> wrote: [airport security]

...

More indications of an emerging 'Brazil' scenario, as opposed to a hyper-intelligent super-fascist state.

As if.

There already is a kind of intelligent super-fascist state in place thoughout much of society. My bugbears of the moment are the police and courts, so you get my take on how they are organised so as to be 'intelligent' without seeming so -- which further enables a whole lot of fraud to masqerade as process and incompetence. The super-fascist part comes about because the system avoids public accountability while also somehow evading any sort of reasonable standard of performance.

What's the error rate, that is the false arrest, prosecution, and/or conviction rate of a Western countries' judiciary and police divitions? If it's even ten percent, and it's probably much higher, then there is no reason to respect the operation and perpetuation of the system.

One chilling data point. Remember a few years ago the (pro death penalty) governor of Illinois suspended all the death sentences in has state? The reason being was that with the introduction of DNA testing, 1/3 of the people on death row were found to be innocent.

I don't know how many other innocents the state planned to murder, but presumably there were some cases where DNA evidence was not available.

If, in a capital case, where the money to pay public defenders is usually maximally available, and the appeals process, checks, and cross-checks are the more thorough than in any non-capital prosecution, you STILL get at least a 33% error rate, then what is the wrongfull conviction rate in non-capital cases, where there are far fewer appeals, and public defenders are paid a pittance?

Peter Trei

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