Re: libertarian vs. socialist (Im a libertarian socialist!)
"Anarcho capitalism corresponds to what any normal person would call anarchy" Who said I was normal? Normal for norte america Yes,maybe.(just say 'so')
Explanations of "anarcho" socialism are evasive, euphemistic and full of equivocations
I dont remember seeing any,Its usually anarchism or libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism Isnt it? When they go into detail, for example par-econ, they describe in pleasant sounding words a system more centralized and authoritarian in form and theory than Stalin's was in form and theory, and often more centralized and authoritarian even in theory than Maoism was in actual practice. I dont recall.Could you cite anarchist stalins and mao's,please? "before 1936 there were various unclear, confused, self contradictory, but undeniably sincere proposals as to how to implement anarcho socialism" Such as Italian factory occupations?Malatesta who predicted ww2 as ww1 started was confused? What you say may be true but does it apply to anarcho-SYNDICALISM? Unclear,confused, self contradictory, but undeniably insincere seems to apply to someone. "Then disaster struck. They actually had a go at it, with entirely predictable results. The contradiction between socialism and anarchism was demonstrated with the usual rivers of blood. Some became disillusioned. Some reinterpreted their now inconvenient past positions as standard socialism. " Disaster struck for many reasons and it was not all as grim as the stories you put on the web.You could cite many more sources on your site that you wont thus letting people get away with questioning your honesty and motives.I simply agree with those that call you a liar on Spain(you also have useful stuff elsewhere, so not being a dead loss) The anarcho-capitalism you and tim seem so fond of would not survive long without all the instruments of state repression backing it up.How long would NIKE last in an anarchist world? McDonalds? Monsanto? Thanks for responding,see you at the 'punks. matthew proffr taylor. Ive just unpacked my PGP but have yet to read the user manual.The intro by phill is cool.Dig sig pending.
-- James A. Donald:
"Anarcho capitalism corresponds to what any normal person would call anarchy"
mattd
Who said I was normal?
If you use the word anarchy to refer to something that is very far from anarchy as it is normally understood, without explaining that you are using a special and unusual meaning, this is lying. If you were to say: : : "I am an anarchist, but by anarchist I mean a : : really really really democratic and decentralized : : government exercising all power and total power : : over every person's action and every good, with a : : general committee to decide all matters of : : general interest and authorize any truly : : necessary use of force" most people would say: : : "You are not an anarchist, you are a democratic : : socialist -- we already went through that stuff : : in the twentieth century. On those rare : : occasions when they were both actually : : democratic, and actually socialist, the economy : : collapsed and they got voted out the next : : elections." James A. Donald:
When they go into detail, for example par-econ, they describe in pleasant sounding words a system more centralized and authoritarian in form and theory than Stalin's was in form and theory, and often more centralized and authoritarian even in theory than Maoism was in actual practice.
mattd:
I dont recall.Could you cite anarchist stalins and mao's,please?
If you call the what the authors of ParEcon propose anarchism, then PolPot was as much an anarchist as they were, Stalin ten times as much an anarchist as they were, and Mao one hundred times. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG OQYECo7+gyIrQKctq60cC1UvKMKkPdfA7ARhBGkw 4UK2wPuK5XGJbFyc2DKUBMmRzR7WU8jLgbvndXR7N
-- On 3 Dec 2001, at 8:06, mattd wrote:
Disaster struck [anarcho socialism in Catalonia] for many reasons and it was not all as grim as the stories you put on the web.You could cite many more sources on your site that you wont thus letting people get away with questioning your honesty and motives.I simply agree with those that call you a liar on Spain
If you read through McKay's pages, he calls me a liar, but then concedes the important facts -- concedes that "anarchist" Catalonia was in fact a dictatorship that ruled by terror, arguing not that I am lying because I say there was terror and there was no terror, not that I am lying because I say there was a dictatorship and there was no dictatorship, but instead claiming I am a liar because I imply there was unjust and oppressive terror whereas really it was necessary and justified terror, that I am a liar because I imply there was arrogant and cruel dictatorship when really it was benevolent and kindly dictatorship. For example in http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2374/govern.html an McKay writes: : : Moving on, James Donald presents one of his more : : outrageous statements. : : : : "then later, their leaders decided in : : : : secret, in cheerful defiance of the : : : : democratic procedures to dissolve the : : : : militia committee, to officially : : : : recreate the state rather than : : : : unofficially" He then rants at great length that I am lying outrageously, and that what I say is completely contradicted by the very sources that I cite, but after all this ranting concedes: : : [...] James Donald is right in that the CNT made : : the decision [...] in violation of its democratic : : principles, since the rank and file were not : : consulted. The decision in question stripped the "anarchist" nomenclatura of its power, and fed it into the hands of their enemies. If he concedes that the most important decision the "anarchists" ever made was made by a secretive elite, how then can my words be outragous? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG AKpu2kepzNrk+gFVpsRFEhY123rgc5xUgow4eElm 4BitZRQhAj4p9f2SbO+b0zQWmqJVLbIw4UK+QcVD/
participants (2)
-
jamesd＠echeque.com -
mattd