Tim wrote: On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 06:32 PM, Faustine wrote:

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I think it's dangerous and entirely to your disadvantage to dismiss everyone doing government work in computer security as a donut-chomping incompetent Barney-Fife-clone imbecile. Anyone can laugh at the department heads on C-SPAN, but did you ever stop to think about who's really doing the hardcore research for the NSA at Ft. Meade--and elsewhere? I know of an old-school NSA red teamer who's been teaching programming and engineering since before either one of us was born. An honest-to-god mathematical genius. Some of those old wizards could teach us all a thing or two. Since I have no idea how old the "Jim" you cite is, and since I suspect you are less than 25 years old, your claims are not very impressive.

It wasn't meant to be impressive: my only point was that it's not a good idea for young people such as Jim and myself--"whippersnappers", if you prefer--to underestimate those with far more knowledge and experience in the relevant subjects. What could you possibly find to argue with in that. If you or anyone else here believes that no one at Ft. Meade could possibly teach you anything, fine. If you question my ability to recognize a first- rate mathematical mind when I see one, that's fine too. But if you honestly think there aren't information scientists out there every bit as technically competent and clued-in as you are, chances are you're setting yourself up for a rude awakening someday. Intellectual hubris...

We have had (and may still have) list members who were developing systems for the NSA in 1963, fully 37 years ago. (Cf. "Harvest" in Bamford's 1983 book. A hardy reader will known what I'm talking about.)

The fact that list members have NSA work experience hardly refutes the point I was making that you shouldn't dismiss someone as a donut-chomping incompetent on the basis of his taking government work.

You twentysomething grad student should be very careful when talking about 'before either one of us was born." While probably true, of little significance.

It's all in the context. ~Faustine.