U.S. Secret Service raids E-Gold currency exchanger
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42745,00.html Secret Service Raids E-Gold by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 11:10 a.m. Mar. 30, 2001 PST WASHINGTON -- The Secret Service has raided a New York state business that exchanged dollars for grams of the digital currency called e-gold. A bevy of agents from the Secret Service, Postal Service and local police recently detained the owners of Gold-Age, based in Syracuse, and seized computers, files and documents from the fledgling firm. U.S. Attorney Daniel French said Friday that the investigation involved charges of credit card fraud. "We haven't brought charges yet," French said. "We're in the investigative phase." Gold-Age owner Parker Bradley says that during his eight-hour interrogation on March 12, the Secret Service seemed less interested in credit card fraud and more interested in the mechanics of e-gold. Until last year, Bradley accepted credit cards and paid out e-gold, but said he quit because too many people used stolen credit cards when conducting business with him. "The interrogation became less about me and more about politics and e-gold," Bradley said. "They were trying to get me to blame e-gold for fraud. Just to be blunt, these guys have no clue about how e-commerce works, how e-gold works or what I was doing." E-gold is a 5-year-old firm based on the Caribbean island of Nevis that provides an electronic currency backed by physical metal stored in vaults in London and Dubai. The company says it has 181,000 user accounts and stores about 1.4 metric tons of gold on behalf of its customers. Bradley's Gold-Age company, which he ran with his wife out of their home until the raid, was one of about a dozen e-gold currency exchange services: He took dollars and credited grams of gold, silver, platinum and palladium to a customer's account, less a modest fee. [...] Still unclear is why the raid took place. French indicated that it could be more than a routine credit card investigation, saying "at this point, it's being investigated as a credit card fraud." One possibility is a broader investigation directed at some users of e-gold, which is less anonymous than cash but more anonymous than credit cards. Former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers has warned of malcontents using the Net and encryption to dodge taxes, and it's possible that the feds don't exactly approve of a system that's more privacy-protective than the heavily regulated banking system. Current federal regulations require banks and credit unions -- about 19,000 in all -- to inform federal law enforcement of all transactions $5,000 and above that have no "apparent lawful purpose or are not the sort in which the particular customer would normally be expected to engage." Because e-gold is not a bank that lends money -- it's more akin to a warehouse that stores gold on behalf of its customers -- it's not covered by those rules. Mike Godwin said the raid evokes memories of the notorious Steve Jackson Games raid by the Secret Service a decade ago, which led to the formation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. [...]
is this related to the raid? http://www.caymannetnews.com/Archive/Archive%20Articles/November%202000/Issu e%2031/IRSnowgoing.html summary: irs cracking down on offshore banks using credit cards as access mechanism to overseas accounts. perhaps this is related to the case noted below. phillip -----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:21 PM To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net; fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: U.S. Secret Service raids E-Gold currency exchanger http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42745,00.html Secret Service Raids E-Gold by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 11:10 a.m. Mar. 30, 2001 PST WASHINGTON -- The Secret Service has raided a New York state business that exchanged dollars for grams of the digital currency called e-gold. A bevy of agents from the Secret Service, Postal Service and local police recently detained the owners of Gold-Age, based in Syracuse, and seized computers, files and documents from the fledgling firm. U.S. Attorney Daniel French said Friday that the investigation involved charges of credit card fraud. "We haven't brought charges yet," French said. "We're in the investigative phase." Gold-Age owner Parker Bradley says that during his eight-hour interrogation on March 12, the Secret Service seemed less interested in credit card fraud and more interested in the mechanics of e-gold. Until last year, Bradley accepted credit cards and paid out e-gold, but said he quit because too many people used stolen credit cards when conducting business with him. "The interrogation became less about me and more about politics and e-gold," Bradley said. "They were trying to get me to blame e-gold for fraud. Just to be blunt, these guys have no clue about how e-commerce works, how e-gold works or what I was doing." E-gold is a 5-year-old firm based on the Caribbean island of Nevis that provides an electronic currency backed by physical metal stored in vaults in London and Dubai. The company says it has 181,000 user accounts and stores about 1.4 metric tons of gold on behalf of its customers. Bradley's Gold-Age company, which he ran with his wife out of their home until the raid, was one of about a dozen e-gold currency exchange services: He took dollars and credited grams of gold, silver, platinum and palladium to a customer's account, less a modest fee. [...] Still unclear is why the raid took place. French indicated that it could be more than a routine credit card investigation, saying "at this point, it's being investigated as a credit card fraud." One possibility is a broader investigation directed at some users of e-gold, which is less anonymous than cash but more anonymous than credit cards. Former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers has warned of malcontents using the Net and encryption to dodge taxes, and it's possible that the feds don't exactly approve of a system that's more privacy-protective than the heavily regulated banking system. Current federal regulations require banks and credit unions -- about 19,000 in all -- to inform federal law enforcement of all transactions $5,000 and above that have no "apparent lawful purpose or are not the sort in which the particular customer would normally be expected to engage." Because e-gold is not a bank that lends money -- it's more akin to a warehouse that stores gold on behalf of its customers -- it's not covered by those rules. Mike Godwin said the raid evokes memories of the notorious Steve Jackson Games raid by the Secret Service a decade ago, which led to the formation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. [...]
need a clarification: is it $5,000 for le and $10,000 or $25,000 for mandatory reporting to the irs? btw i do know banks will volunteer suspicious transactions, no matter how small, to the irs. i believe this is how a fed. treasury worker was caught...he thought depositing smaller amounts (<$9,000) would go unnoticed. this link to declan's article which raises my above question. http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,20498,00.html phillip -----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:21 PM To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net; fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: U.S. Secret Service raids E-Gold currency exchanger http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42745,00.html Secret Service Raids E-Gold by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 11:10 a.m. Mar. 30, 2001 PST WASHINGTON -- The Secret Service has raided a New York state business that exchanged dollars for grams of the digital currency called e-gold. A bevy of agents from the Secret Service, Postal Service and local police recently detained the owners of Gold-Age, based in Syracuse, and seized computers, files and documents from the fledgling firm. U.S. Attorney Daniel French said Friday that the investigation involved charges of credit card fraud. "We haven't brought charges yet," French said. "We're in the investigative phase." Gold-Age owner Parker Bradley says that during his eight-hour interrogation on March 12, the Secret Service seemed less interested in credit card fraud and more interested in the mechanics of e-gold. Until last year, Bradley accepted credit cards and paid out e-gold, but said he quit because too many people used stolen credit cards when conducting business with him. "The interrogation became less about me and more about politics and e-gold," Bradley said. "They were trying to get me to blame e-gold for fraud. Just to be blunt, these guys have no clue about how e-commerce works, how e-gold works or what I was doing." E-gold is a 5-year-old firm based on the Caribbean island of Nevis that provides an electronic currency backed by physical metal stored in vaults in London and Dubai. The company says it has 181,000 user accounts and stores about 1.4 metric tons of gold on behalf of its customers. Bradley's Gold-Age company, which he ran with his wife out of their home until the raid, was one of about a dozen e-gold currency exchange services: He took dollars and credited grams of gold, silver, platinum and palladium to a customer's account, less a modest fee. [...] Still unclear is why the raid took place. French indicated that it could be more than a routine credit card investigation, saying "at this point, it's being investigated as a credit card fraud." One possibility is a broader investigation directed at some users of e-gold, which is less anonymous than cash but more anonymous than credit cards. Former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers has warned of malcontents using the Net and encryption to dodge taxes, and it's possible that the feds don't exactly approve of a system that's more privacy-protective than the heavily regulated banking system. Current federal regulations require banks and credit unions -- about 19,000 in all -- to inform federal law enforcement of all transactions $5,000 and above that have no "apparent lawful purpose or are not the sort in which the particular customer would normally be expected to engage." Because e-gold is not a bank that lends money -- it's more akin to a warehouse that stores gold on behalf of its customers -- it's not covered by those rules. Mike Godwin said the raid evokes memories of the notorious Steve Jackson Games raid by the Secret Service a decade ago, which led to the formation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. [...]
pz said:
need a clarification: is it $5,000 for le and $10,000 or $25,000 for mandatory reporting to the irs? btw i do know banks will volunteer suspicious transactions, no matter how small, to the irs. i believe this is how a fed. treasury worker was caught...he thought depositing smaller amounts (<$9,000) would go unnoticed.
CTR/SARs now automatically generated by "money laundering software" and the friendly people at FINdCENts. pz, don't you bank at The Willful Blindness Bank & Trust? ~Aimee PS: Do you know your Ill-gotten-gains ABCs? SPECIAL NOTICE: we are still accepting crimes for J, Q, X, Y and Z. Aircraft piracy Alien smuggling Arms export Bank fraud Bank robbery and burglary of government property Bank Secrecy Act crimes Bankruptcy fraud Bribery Congressional or Cabinet officer assassination Conspiracy to kill, kidnap or maim a person or injure certain property in a foreign country Contraband cigarettes, trafficking in Copyright infringement Counterfeit goods, trafficking in Counterfeiting and forgery Customs crimes Destruction by explosives or fire of government property or property affecting interstate commerce Destruction of aircraft Embezzlement and theft Emergency Economic Powers Act crimes Espionage Export Crimes Extortion and threats Extortionate credit transactions Food stamp crimes Foreign corrupt practices Foreign law violations: extortion; fraud against a foreign bank; kidnapping; murder or destruction of property by means of explosive or fire; narcotics; robbery Fraud and false statements Gambling Health care fraud Influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal official by threatening or injuring family member J [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Kidnapping Labor-management financial transaction fraud, union embezzlement Mail fraud Mail, theft from Malicious mischief Murder on a federal facility Murder of employees of the U.S. Murder of foreign officials, official guests or foreign protected persons Narcotics offenses National resource conservation Nationality and citizenship, unlawful procurement Obscenity Obstruction of justice Ocean dumping Passport and visa crimes Peonage and slavery Presidential assassination, kidnapping or assault Prohibited transactions involving nuclear materials Q [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Racketeering Securities, fraud in the sale of Sexual activity, transportation for illegal Sexual exploitation of children State felonies: arson, bribery, dealing in obscene matter, extortion, gambling, kidnapping, murder, robbery, narcotics Stolen property, trafficking in Tariff Act Terrorism Trading With The Enemy Unauthorized sound and video recordings, fixation and trafficking in Violence against maritime navigation and fixed platforms Violence at international airports Water pollution Wire fraud X [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Y [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Z [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!]
sorry...i was out the day they were teaching the abc's of the sins of commission at crime school. does 'jailbreak' count as a j word? pz -----Original Message----- From: Aimee Farr [mailto:aimee.farr@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 6:59 PM To: Phillip H. Zakas; cypherpunks@lne.com Subject: RE: U.S. Secret Service raids E-Gold currency exchanger (defense fund) pz said:
need a clarification: is it $5,000 for le and $10,000 or $25,000 for mandatory reporting to the irs? btw i do know banks will volunteer suspicious transactions, no matter how small, to the irs. i believe this is how a fed. treasury worker was caught...he thought depositing smaller amounts (<$9,000) would go unnoticed.
CTR/SARs now automatically generated by "money laundering software" and the friendly people at FINdCENts. pz, don't you bank at The Willful Blindness Bank & Trust? ~Aimee PS: Do you know your Ill-gotten-gains ABCs? SPECIAL NOTICE: we are still accepting crimes for J, Q, X, Y and Z. Aircraft piracy Alien smuggling Arms export Bank fraud Bank robbery and burglary of government property Bank Secrecy Act crimes Bankruptcy fraud Bribery Congressional or Cabinet officer assassination Conspiracy to kill, kidnap or maim a person or injure certain property in a foreign country Contraband cigarettes, trafficking in Copyright infringement Counterfeit goods, trafficking in Counterfeiting and forgery Customs crimes Destruction by explosives or fire of government property or property affecting interstate commerce Destruction of aircraft Embezzlement and theft Emergency Economic Powers Act crimes Espionage Export Crimes Extortion and threats Extortionate credit transactions Food stamp crimes Foreign corrupt practices Foreign law violations: extortion; fraud against a foreign bank; kidnapping; murder or destruction of property by means of explosive or fire; narcotics; robbery Fraud and false statements Gambling Health care fraud Influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal official by threatening or injuring family member J [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Kidnapping Labor-management financial transaction fraud, union embezzlement Mail fraud Mail, theft from Malicious mischief Murder on a federal facility Murder of employees of the U.S. Murder of foreign officials, official guests or foreign protected persons Narcotics offenses National resource conservation Nationality and citizenship, unlawful procurement Obscenity Obstruction of justice Ocean dumping Passport and visa crimes Peonage and slavery Presidential assassination, kidnapping or assault Prohibited transactions involving nuclear materials Q [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Racketeering Securities, fraud in the sale of Sexual activity, transportation for illegal Sexual exploitation of children State felonies: arson, bribery, dealing in obscene matter, extortion, gambling, kidnapping, murder, robbery, narcotics Stolen property, trafficking in Tariff Act Terrorism Trading With The Enemy Unauthorized sound and video recordings, fixation and trafficking in Violence against maritime navigation and fixed platforms Violence at international airports Water pollution Wire fraud X [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Y [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!] Z [UNREGISTERED! REGISTER NOW!]
Good question. I don't recall anymore; my article today linked to an archived Wired story that went into this in more detail and I believe linked to the appropriate regs. --Declan At 05:51 PM 3/30/01 -0500, Phillip H. Zakas wrote:
need a clarification: is it $5,000 for le and $10,000 or $25,000 for mandatory reporting to the irs? btw i do know banks will volunteer suspicious transactions, no matter how small, to the irs. i believe this is how a fed. treasury worker was caught...he thought depositing smaller amounts (<$9,000) would go unnoticed.
this link to declan's article which raises my above question. http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,20498,00.html phillip
-----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:21 PM To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net; fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: U.S. Secret Service raids E-Gold currency exchanger
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42745,00.html
Secret Service Raids E-Gold by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com) 11:10 a.m. Mar. 30, 2001 PST
WASHINGTON -- The Secret Service has raided a New York state business that exchanged dollars for grams of the digital currency called e-gold.
A bevy of agents from the Secret Service, Postal Service and local police recently detained the owners of Gold-Age, based in Syracuse, and seized computers, files and documents from the fledgling firm.
U.S. Attorney Daniel French said Friday that the investigation involved charges of credit card fraud. "We haven't brought charges yet," French said. "We're in the investigative phase."
Gold-Age owner Parker Bradley says that during his eight-hour interrogation on March 12, the Secret Service seemed less interested in credit card fraud and more interested in the mechanics of e-gold. Until last year, Bradley accepted credit cards and paid out e-gold, but said he quit because too many people used stolen credit cards when conducting business with him.
"The interrogation became less about me and more about politics and e-gold," Bradley said. "They were trying to get me to blame e-gold for fraud. Just to be blunt, these guys have no clue about how e-commerce works, how e-gold works or what I was doing."
E-gold is a 5-year-old firm based on the Caribbean island of Nevis that provides an electronic currency backed by physical metal stored in vaults in London and Dubai. The company says it has 181,000 user accounts and stores about 1.4 metric tons of gold on behalf of its customers.
Bradley's Gold-Age company, which he ran with his wife out of their home until the raid, was one of about a dozen e-gold currency exchange services: He took dollars and credited grams of gold, silver, platinum and palladium to a customer's account, less a modest fee.
[...]
Still unclear is why the raid took place. French indicated that it could be more than a routine credit card investigation, saying "at this point, it's being investigated as a credit card fraud."
One possibility is a broader investigation directed at some users of e-gold, which is less anonymous than cash but more anonymous than credit cards. Former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers has warned of malcontents using the Net and encryption to dodge taxes, and it's possible that the feds don't exactly approve of a system that's more privacy-protective than the heavily regulated banking system.
Current federal regulations require banks and credit unions -- about 19,000 in all -- to inform federal law enforcement of all transactions $5,000 and above that have no "apparent lawful purpose or are not the sort in which the particular customer would normally be expected to engage."
Because e-gold is not a bank that lends money -- it's more akin to a warehouse that stores gold on behalf of its customers -- it's not covered by those rules.
Mike Godwin said the raid evokes memories of the notorious Steve Jackson Games raid by the Secret Service a decade ago, which led to the formation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[...]
At 8:10 PM -0500 3/30/01, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Good question. I don't recall anymore; my article today linked to an archived Wired story that went into this in more detail and I believe linked to the appropriate regs. --Declan
First of all, please note that I really speak for myself and it's implied in the article I speak for OmniPay too. I can't hide my outrage well sometimes. :( Here's the message from the founder, who wasn't as amused with the headline mistake as I was. JMR Subject: [e-gold-list] [Fwd: re: Secret Service Raids E-Gold] List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-e-gold-list-147S@talk.e-gold.com> List-Subscribe: <mailto:subscribe-e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com> List-Owner: <mailto:owner-e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com> X-Message-Id: <3AC5276F.FC3373BA@omnipay.net> Sender: bounce-e-gold-list-147@talk.e-gold.com sigh -------- Original Message -------- Subject: re: Secret Service Raids E-Gold Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:05:34 -0500 From: Douglas Jackson <djackson@omnipay.net> To: newsfeedback@wired.com CC: declan@wired.com I am the founder and Chairman of e-gold Ltd. Contrary to the luridly irresponsible and actionable headline on this article, there has been no raid on e-gold Ltd., or on Gold & Silver Reserve Inc. [dba OmniPay http://www.omnipay.net ], the company that originally developed the e-gold system and currently serves as Operator. The more edifying reality is that e-gold® is the worlds first electronic currency designed for borderless eCommerce, enabling the worldwide use of gold as money. It merges the digital transaction efficiencies of an electronic payment system with a universally acceptable basis of value. The advantages of e-gold include: · Low transaction fees The maximum payment processing fee is 50 cents (US-equiv.). For a $1000 value payment, this is less than one twentieth as much as credit cards. · Immediate settlement e-gold payments clear instantaneously, no matter how large or small the payment, no matter how far apart the spender and recipient. · Non-repudiation No chargebacks. Get paid, stay paid. · Direct access with bi-directionality Anyone can pay or be paid. · Automation support The e-gold Shopping Cart Interface is easily implemented and provides immediate authenticated notification of completed payment. · Zero financial risk e-gold is the worlds first remote payment system backed 100% by physical gold in allocated storage. e-gold is in fact succeeding where other electronic payment initiatives are failing because it is designed specifically for worldwide eCommerce. All others merely add additional layers of liability to legacy systems. Since online launch November 1996, the e-gold system has been growing at an accelerating pace. As of April 2000, 100,000 transactions had been settled. The one millionth transaction was November 2000 and the second million mark surpassed in March 2001. It is regrettable that the first time many people will hear of e-gold(r) will be this sloppy and damaging Wired headline. Dr. Douglas Jackson Founder of e-gold
At 08:28 PM 3/30/01 -0500, James M. Ray wrote:
First of all, please note that I really speak for myself and it's implied in the article I speak for OmniPay too. I can't hide my outrage well sometimes. :(
Um, no, it's explicitly stated in the article that you speak for OmniPay. Jim, you're a good guy, but when you give an on the record interview to a reporter and he asks you what title to use and you say (after some more colorful suggestions) "vice president," it's reasonable to conclude you're speaking for the company. An officer of the company not speaking for it? It would be like Bill Gates not speaking for Microsoft. -Declan
At 8:35 PM -0500 3/30/01, Declan McCullagh wrote:
At 08:28 PM 3/30/01 -0500, James M. Ray wrote:
First of all, please note that I really speak for myself and it's implied in the article I speak for OmniPay too. I can't hide my outrage well sometimes. :(
Um, no, it's explicitly stated in the article that you speak for OmniPay. Jim, you're a good guy, but when you give an on the record interview to a reporter and he asks you what title to use and you say (after some more colorful suggestions) "vice president," it's reasonable to conclude you're speaking for the company.
An officer of the company not speaking for it? It would be like Bill Gates not speaking for Microsoft.
Ok, you can say that, but I said I really wanted you to speak to the president. I'm probably not the best source about e-gold compared to the guy who invented it, after all, and he's really most concerned about a terribly-misleading headline (which finally was changed as the lawyer began to send nastygrams) and not really what I say, especially about this case, since it's about another company, but I can't hide that I think that this is outrageous. You could have had our Bill Gates and got me (yech!) but the good news is that this likely isn't the end of the Gold-Age story, so you'll probably have another chance to talk to him if you keep covering it, but the story there isn't even e-gold, it's credit card fraud committed (IMO -- personal opinion) by someone besides Parker Bradley. JMR
At 9:06 PM -0500 3/30/01, James M. Ray wrote:
Ok, you can say that, but I said I really wanted you to speak to the president. I'm probably not the best source about e-gold compared to the guy who invented it, after all, and he's really most concerned about a terribly-misleading headline (which finally was changed as the lawyer began to send nastygrams)
What sort of "nastygrams" did your lawyers send? Article writers are free, in a free society, to pick the headlines they wish. If I received "nastygrams" for the _headlines_ I attached to articles I wrote, I'd tell the authors of the "nastygrams" to fuck off. If they took further action, I think killing them would be fully justfied. What statist universe have you moved into, Jim? --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
At 8:13 PM -0800 3/30/01, Tim May wrote: ...
What sort of "nastygrams" did your lawyers send?
Article writers are free, in a free society, to pick the headlines they wish.
If I received "nastygrams" for the _headlines_ I attached to articles I wrote, I'd tell the authors of the "nastygrams" to fuck off. If they took further action, I think killing them would be fully justfied.
What statist universe have you moved into, Jim?
Ah... (You're not back in tune with why you don't miss cpunks all *that* much without a good, quick, Tim-May: "killing them would be fully justfied.") I'm fully aware of cypherpunks' views on libel law, for me they're not the issue in the Gold Age case IMO. The lawyer thought the false headline libelous*, and wanted the Wired site to (do what they've since done and) fix it. Personally, I think the case against Parker's the outrage here, so if you're all kind enough to pardon me letting lawyers be lawyers, I'll be leaving now. JMR * Declan didn't (and apparently doesn't ever get to) write the headline for stories. I thought the headline was a weird joke at first, frankly, but then I remembered an experience with a letter I once wrote for the Miami Herald, where the headline and caption completely contradicted everything I said.
At 20:13 -0800 on 3/30/01, Tim May wrote:
What sort of "nastygrams" did your lawyers send?
Article writers are free, in a free society, to pick the headlines they wish.
Tsk, tsk Tim. In a free society people are also free to send those writers letters warning them of inaccuracies in there article (including the headlines). AND the newsperson is well advised to correct such in things when they are in fact they are untrue. Failure to do so can and should result in a libel suit. Such is the way things should work in a free society... -- ____________________________________________________________________ volatile: Because every program deserves SOME interrupt code... Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott <mailto:kelliott@mac.com> ICQ#23758827 ____________________________________________________________________
At 12:15 PM -0800 3/31/01, Kevin Elliott wrote:
At 20:13 -0800 on 3/30/01, Tim May wrote:
What sort of "nastygrams" did your lawyers send?
Article writers are free, in a free society, to pick the headlines they wish.
Tsk, tsk Tim. In a free society people are also free to send those writers letters warning them of inaccuracies in there article (including the headlines). AND the newsperson is well advised to correct such in things when they are in fact they are untrue. Failure to do so can and should result in a libel suit. Such is the way things should work in a free society...
I don't care for your characterization of my views. Please correct this immediately or face a lawsuit. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
At 21:22 -0800 on 3/31/01, Tim May wrote:
At 12:15 PM -0800 3/31/01, Kevin Elliott wrote:
At 20:13 -0800 on 3/30/01, Tim May wrote:
What sort of "nastygrams" did your lawyers send?
Article writers are free, in a free society, to pick the headlines they wish.
Tsk, tsk Tim. In a free society people are also free to send those writers letters warning them of inaccuracies in there article (including the headlines). AND the newsperson is well advised to correct such in things when they are in fact they are untrue. Failure to do so can and should result in a libel suit. Such is the way things should work in a free society...
I don't care for your characterization of my views. Please correct this immediately or face a lawsuit.
Which views have I attributed to you? -- ____________________________________________________________________ volatile: Because every program deserves SOME interrupt code... Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott <mailto:kelliott@mac.com> ICQ#23758827 ____________________________________________________________________
I kid you not, I leave it for Dr Mike to prognosticate on the use of slashdot for sending missives of a legalistic and intimidatory nature: Message from e-gold's US Counsel to Wired editors (Score:1) by e-gold (_NOSPAM_jray@omnipay.net) on Friday March 30, @06:30PM EDT (#294) (User #36755 Info) http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=9 I need you to contact me immediately. Wired will face an immediate law suit by e-gold unless the headline of your article is changed immediately, this does not go out in print and you print a retraction to this extremely damaging headline. Barry K. Downey U.S. Counsel to e-gold Ltd. Try e-gold - (contact me). [ Reply to This | Parent ]
Philll, I wasn't 'serving' anything, the lawyer asked me to post the damn message -- it's hardly a writ, it's a nastygram asking them to change a headline. I know the guy they busted, and the SS busted HIM, not us. I wish you'd just get back to your incessant flamewar with Matt Gaylor to convince him that his guns are all evil, or whatever you're trying to do. None of this has much to do with censorship, and I'm no longer on the cypherpunks list, for better or worse. Hi again to all who know me there. JMR
Oh didn'ty you know that in the US money is speech? Plus threatening a well known and highly respected Internet journalist with a libel lawsuit if they don't change their story could be considered a censorship issue. Phill
-----Original Message----- From: owner-fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu [mailto:owner-fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu]On Behalf Of James M. Ray Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:10 PM To: Phillip Hallam-Baker Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net; fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Re: Declan served with writ through slashdot!
Philll, I wasn't 'serving' anything, the lawyer asked me to post the damn message -- it's hardly a writ, it's a nastygram asking them to change a headline. I know the guy they busted, and the SS busted HIM, not us. I wish you'd just get back to your incessant flamewar with Matt Gaylor to convince him that his guns are all evil, or whatever you're trying to do.
None of this has much to do with censorship, and I'm no longer on the cypherpunks list, for better or worse. Hi again to all who know me there. JMR
participants (8)
-
Aimee Farr -
Declan McCullagh -
James M. Ray -
James M. Ray -
Kevin Elliott -
Phillip H. Zakas -
Phillip Hallam-Baker -
Tim May