Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Nomen Nescio wrote: [snip]
The answers it gives depends on the questions you ask. If your questions are simple enough (untraceability good?) then your chart will answer them. If your questions are more interesting (what technologies can be practically implemented and make a positive difference in the world) then you need a better chart.
You (and Aimee) make the mistake of assuming that all of us believe that we are living in the best of all possible worlds. Many people however believe that we [read: our government(s)] are in a downward spiral that is converging on police-and-welfare-state. In the US for example, we long ago abandoned our constitution. We still give it much lip service and we still have one of the "more free" societies but things are trending in the wrong direction. Each year more oppressive laws are passed, more things are made illegal to say or write or - if some have their way - think. (And of course it goes without saying that these things that are prohibited to us are available to "authorized users": those in intelligence, law enforcement, etc. - the usual "more equal" individuals.) More of our incomes are stolen to be redistributed to the lazy and undeserving, who have every incentive to continue voting for the politicians who will continue to transfer money from productive individuals to them. At the same time, more twits like you and Aimee spring up, always ready to say "no, you mustn't say such things - you don't really mean that, do you? How could anyone even think such things?" As Tim has pointed out over and over, you need to read up on cypherpunks themes, goals and history. His signature has included this inscription for years (though he seems not to be using it lately): Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments. Did you think he didn't really mean it? As a start on getting up to speed on alternatives to our current "system of government" (and excellent entertainment besides), I recommend you read these works: "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson "The Ungoverned" by Vernor Vinge There are many others that could be added to this list but just reading these will give you a taste of some alternative societies that might be in many ways preferable to the current kleptocracy. - GH (who admits he's been heavily influenced by Mr. May) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
GH wrote:
Nomen Nescio wrote: [snip]
The answers it gives depends on the questions you ask. If your questions are simple enough (untraceability good?) then your chart will answer them. If your questions are more interesting (what technologies can be practically implemented and make a positive difference in the world) then you need a better chart.
You (and Aimee) make the mistake of assuming that all of us believe that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
*sigh*
Many people however believe that we [read: our government(s)] are in a downward spiral that is converging on police-and-welfare-state. In the US for example, we long ago abandoned our constitution. We still give it much lip service and we still have one of the "more free" societies but things are trending in the wrong direction.
Each year more oppressive laws are passed, more things are made illegal to say or write or - if some have their way - think. (And of course it goes without saying that these things that are prohibited to us are available to "authorized users": those in intelligence, law enforcement, etc. - the usual "more equal" individuals.)
I might understand this better than you think.
At the same time, more twits like you and Aimee spring up, always ready to say "no, you mustn't say such things - you don't really mean that, do you? How could anyone even think such things?"
Twit: my pet name in here.
As Tim has pointed out over and over, you need to read up on cypherpunks themes, goals and history. His signature has included this inscription for years (though he seems not to be using it lately):
Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments.
Did you think he didn't really mean it?
I'm not sticking my head in that noose.
As a start on getting up to speed on alternatives to our current "system of government" (and excellent entertainment besides), I recommend you read these works: "Snow Crash" by Neal Stephenson "The Ungoverned" by Vernor Vinge There are many others that could be added to this list but just reading these will give you a taste of some alternative societies that might be in many ways preferable to the current kleptocracy.
- GH (who admits he's been heavily influenced by Mr. May)
So, now, it's... "BlackNet; Case History of a Practically Untraceable System for Buying and Selling Corporate and National Secrets.... to foreign adversaries, and to spur the collapse of governments." Just out of curiosity, how many of you would sign on to a project like that? Would you please post a statement of interest, and detail how you would contribute to such a project? ~Aimee
Responding to Gil Hamilton, Aimee Farr wrote:
So, now, it's...
"BlackNet; Case History of a Practically Untraceable System for Buying and Selling Corporate and National Secrets.... to foreign adversaries, and to spur the collapse of governments."
Just out of curiosity, how many of you would sign on to a project like that? Would you please post a statement of interest, and detail how you would contribute to such a project?
"Corvette: Only seats two, capable of exceeding the once national speed limit of 55 mph by a factor of three or more, has no trunk space on par with other vehicles in the same price range." "Motorcycle: Offers negligible protection from inclement weather, injuries sustained by the rider are routinely many orders of magnitude worse than injuries sustained (if any) for another motor vehicle operator in a more traditional, four-wheeled vehicle." But, how many people are interested in these vehicles despite their obvious limitations? Should the limitations be emphasized, or are there other things can and should be said about these vehicles? Again, technology is no different. Why do you persist in these worst case scenarios for your descriptions of Blacknet? Whatever your reason is, it doesn't wash. Blacknet could bring about WWIII and the annihilation of the human race - but so could too many other things. Among all the possible reasons to condemn new or existing tech, because a potential for abuse exists counts as one of the worst. Reese
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Many people however believe that we [read: our government(s)] are in a downward spiral that is converging on police-and-welfare-state. In the US for example, we long ago abandoned our constitution. We still give it much lip service and we still have one of the "more free" societies but things are trending in the wrong direction.
Each year more oppressive laws are passed, more things are made illegal to say or write or - if some have their way - think. (And of course it goes without saying that these things that are prohibited to us are available to "authorized users": those in intelligence, law enforcement, etc. - the usual "more equal" individuals.)
On 28 Aug 2001, at 10:42, Aimee Farr wrote:
I might understand this better than you think.
No you do not. You suggest we should not only obey all legislation that currently exists, but also legislation that does not currently exist, but that might be deemed to exist through failure of a judge to be amused, or legislation that might soon exist. This is of course completely impossible. Everyone has committed many serious crimes, often felonies, usually without ever being aware of it. I have committed hundreds of major felonies that could in theory give me many centuries of jail time, without ever doing anything dishonest, or doing anything particularly unusual for a respectable middle class person. Most companies I have worked for have knowingly committed many serious illegalities. My current company is making an honest effort to comply with all relevant legislation, but this effort appears to me ridiculous and doomed, since no one can really figure out what, if anything, the legislation we are attempting to comply with means, and what constitutes compliance. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG liVZOuTfoRZ0JfmM+NJZXhvgw6giwPDJ1L/iolQ7 4Q4yppLHxuZ/KDqZq2JgBqyRN3uKcX6lKlG7pjKDM
participants (4)
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Aimee Farr -
Gil Hamilton -
jamesd＠echeque.com -
Reese