Why, after reading the questions presented below, think that Danit is the *wrong* person to be writing this article? On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

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Status: RO From: "Danit Lidor" <dlidor@wired.com> To: <rah@shipwright.com> Subject: seeking information for Wired News article Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:19:21 -0700

Hi there,

I am a reporter at Wired News. We received notice of the upcoming Cypherpunks10th anniversary bash. I am thinking of writing a short article about the history and current status of the cypherpunk community.

Note that the term "community" here, while probably not accurate in the strictest sense, is certainly a *LOT* more accurate than the implied term "organization", which the vast majority of your questions approach. Cypherpunks are "organized" only in the sense that "they" manage to get their shopping done when they run out of food. There are CP's who fall all over the 4 corners of the political spectrum, and all over the physical world. Realisticaly, about the only thing that they all have in common is a strong interest in crypto, and a native suspicion for most forms of "authority".

Obviously, things have changed a lot in the last 10 years. I imagine that you and other cypherpunks would have much to say on the topic. Please feel free to rant and rave to me about whatever you feel would be relevant to this kind of article.

Now you've done it: expect 700 emails per day from MattD :-(

When did the Cypherpunks come into existence?

When did Humanity come into existence? I'm serious here: CP merely utilized a new communications medium.

Who were the founding members?

Here we go with the "membership" thing again - You have it Completely Wrong. There are no "members", there is no "leadership", there is no "Following" or "Group". CP's are individuals who happen to identify themselves as CP's - period.

What was the inital purpose?

The purpose? You mean "What does The Group want to accomplish"? See above.

What kinds of people are involved?

Doctors, Lawyers, Mathematecians, Felons, Druggies, Anti-druggies, Anarchists, Libertarians, Right-Wing-Fanatics, Left-Wing-Fanatics, Teachers, Housewives, Househusbands, students, cops, criminals...

Who (socially, i mean, not names!) exactly are the members of the group?

Agains, there IS NO GROUP. I'm not trying to be cute here - THERE IS NO GROUP. The whole concept of "group" is flawed in this context.

How many at any one time?

Anyone's guess. I personally know a bunch of folks who follow CP who do so only out of curiosity: do I count them "in"? How about all the federal agents who subscribe to the CP lists? Getting the drift?

Is it a rotating membership, with people coming and going?

No. There is no "Membership".

There has been a substantial amount of press dedicated to the Cypherpunks, what's been the community response?

Varied. Like the press itself. Like the CP's themselves. It is not possible to place CP into any cubbyhole.

Have their been internal discussions about the repercussions of the media's involvment and the like?

OooOoOooohhhhh.... "Internal Discussions"! I like that: it implies that (radical) Group thing again... :-(

WN has had a very familiar relationship with the cypherpunks - has it been viewed as a positive thing?

By some, and not others.

Have the ideals of the group changed over the years?

Sorry Kemosabe: most of the folks who refer to themselves as CP's are less than "idealists". And, since there IS NO F*@#$ GROUP, this question is irrelevant.

Are there any manifestos

Many: Google Is Your Friend.

or official statements

"Official Statements"! That's rich!!! Tell you what - take one from Column-A, and one from Column-B, where each column is the source of your choice, and I'll [personally] acknowledge them as the Official Statements of Whomever You Like.

from the group that I can access?

What are the future plans for the cypherpunks?

I guess you should ask each CP individually. Personally, my long term plans are to Get Out Of Dodge (USA), before it turns into Germany in 1941. My short term plans are to try and educate as many persons "in authority" as possible in How The Real World Works, and as many persons NOT "in authority" in How The Real World Works.

I attempted to access cypherpunks.com but most of the links are dead, why isn't anyone maintaining it?

Maybe if someone were to form a CypherPunks GROUP, they would get maintained?

Or is it unrelated to the current community?

With whom else are the cypherpunks allied?

[I actually had to take a moment to wipe the tears of laughter from the question] Nobody. Any such "alliance" would require a Group Consensus - something which is just patently impossible. If you ever find two CP's who can agree on enough to come to a broad Consensus, you let me know so I can mark it on my calendar.

What do you, personally, have to say about the future of the Internet, privacy, legislation, hacking, phreaking, cyber terrorism, the governement. etc?

Now *there* are questions I can answer. Internet: Growth will continue, but the Vanillazation will also continue. It's a sorry (but inevitable) thing that once Big Business And Government discover a communications medium it is reduced to it's most Vanilla form. Privacy: ..will continue to be stripped from the world as a whole, and the American world in particular, until some critical mass is reached, and people again enter into the endless cycle of armed revolt. Legislation: ...will continue to be passed solely for the benefit of the legislators and their maggot financial backers, until some critical mass is reached, and people again enter into the endless cycle of armed revolt. Hacking: I assume you are refering to "Cracking" here... It too will continue, as it always has (before Cracking there was Phreaking. Before Phreaking the was Ham Radio?). It's the allure of the Forbidden Fruit. Phreaking: According to my LEO contacts, phreaking is not only on a fast rise, it is also a concern WAY above cracking. <Boggle>. Cyber-Terrorism: Gawd, I just LOVE this concept! In the mid 80's, one of my employers used this concept to sell services to The Fedz - nothing's changed. Of the Eight Critical Infrastructures identified by the USG, I personally find it very difficult to believe that seven of them are vulnerable to any societally significant "attack". This is a hilarious concept used to sell congresscritters and their military counterparts on pork.

and finally, who else should I be talking to?

Joe Sixpack. Jane Doe. George Bush. CP's are everybody and nobody. CypherPunks Are People Who Give A Shit.

Thanks for your time. I am hoping to get the story done before the end of next week (i.e. before the actual party.) Of course, I would never publish the location of the party or any other information that you don't feel comfortable about.

Most CP's wont be there - they wouldn't want to associate with any group of people (note the lowercase "group") who would accept them as a "member"...

Danit Lidor I am also available at 415.276.3925. please leave me a message if I'm away from my desk. I am more than happy to call you back.

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Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org -- If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@wasabisystems.com