Re: Pick your trusted encryption provider and communicate with whomever you want in this world.
On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 06:22 PM, chefren wrote: Cypherpunks, I am forwarding this complete with names of cc:s attached to show you some of the enemies out there. I've gotten several personal e-mails. I am asking Declan, my friend, NOT to forward my posts to his various lists., Too many statists who gibber as this fool "chefren" does. (I have no idea whether "chefron" and "Rob Carlson" are the same person or not...part of the chaos of having my stuff sent to other mailing lists. For now, I am assuming it is only this "chefron" creep who deserves to be blasted.)
On 13 Sep 01, at 19:20, Declan McCullagh forwarded and Rob Carlson wrote:
We have to urge our fellow citizens not to give up their basic civil rights, especially not the right to engage in private conversations over distance and share ideas in private that others (including those in power) might not agree with.
"Right to engage in private conversations over distance"?
Our =society= invented means to have conversations over distance, nobody is born with those capabilities. Those means combined with strong encryption have lot's of good uses but also bear a serious threat for our society.
As foreseen by experts quite some time our society heads for regulated encryption. Basically: Pick your trusted encryption provider and communicate with whoever you want in this world.
This is a disgraceful argument, which I have no particular interest in arguing with you on. Declan, apparently you have been forwarding my posts to you one or more of your lists. Please do not do so. I have no interest in receiving arguments from some of the untermenschen who choose to subscribe to some of your lists. To you untermenschen: don't send your socialist/statist arguments to me personally. If you want to argue, join the lists I am on. --Tim May
If my memory is correct, chefren was the chief proponent of building in surveillance technologies on the IETF RAVEN list, which was chartered to decide the response of the IETF to government requests in that regard. (More or less - my memory isn't exact on the wording.) The resultant discussions were rather heated and quickly went nowhere, which didn't stop chefren from singlehandedly trying to make others see the error of their ways. So the forwarded message is not particularly surprising. (I don't know "Rob Carlson".)
Rob Carlson is a Linux geek and open-source type who is pretty cypherpunkly, as things go. Had dinner with him and some other DC folks this evening. I think you're right about chefren. -Declan On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 03:58:03AM +0000, jmalcolm@uraeus.com wrote:
If my memory is correct, chefren was the chief proponent of building in surveillance technologies on the IETF RAVEN list, which was chartered to decide the response of the IETF to government requests in that regard. (More or less - my memory isn't exact on the wording.) The resultant discussions were rather heated and quickly went nowhere, which didn't stop chefren from singlehandedly trying to make others see the error of their ways.
So the forwarded message is not particularly surprising.
(I don't know "Rob Carlson".)
At 03:58 AM 9/14/2001 +0000, jmalcolm@uraeus.com wrote:
If my memory is correct, chefren was the chief proponent of building in surveillance technologies on the IETF RAVEN list, which was chartered to decide the response of the IETF to government requests in that regard.
Yes, that's him. In the course of those conversations it was revealed that he was an employee or principal of a European company which was producing a line of key-escrow crypto products, and he was hoping to bias the standards towards creating a market for his otherwise distasteful and shameful merchandise. So it's not surprising (but not encouraging) to see him reappear, marketing the same tired apologies for his unwanted and useless garbage, seeking to create a market by forcing people to buy a product they won't spend a dime on unless it's at gunpoint. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids
participants (4)
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Declan McCullagh -
Greg Broiles -
jmalcolm＠uraeus.com -
Tim May