On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, Morlock Elloi wrote:

Ultimately it's impossible to have security where one side is a machine handling many live customers. Whatever central machine does can be emulated or simulated in human's eyes - by subverting the machine itself, the transport mechanism or the client machine/software. This is the ultimate limit of squeezing out middlemen (aka e-commerce.)

You completely overlook distributed networks where there isn't a central server. That's the next wave. As to squeezing out middlemen, your argument actually argues for their elimination, they're a security/subversion point that isn't under control of either of the 'real' parties in the transaction. No, 'middle man' is a consequence of technology, or the lack of it. As the technology matures you'll see the market reduce to something more 'theoretical' in nature; the two parties to each transaction and a neutral third party to resolve disputes.

The security is proportional to wetware cycles burned per transaction.

Not even close. Consider cracking 802.11b for example. The trick to crack it isn't to focus on one transaction but to grab several million. Security isn't this simple to define. -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 15 Jun 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

At 12:21 AM -0700 on 6/15/02, Morlock Elloi wrote:

...

The security is proportional to wetware cycles burned per transaction.

I guess I don't think that's right.

Sooner, hopefully rather than later, machines will be able to buy things from other machines using on-line cash.

The risk will be absorbed by having a multitude of underwriters of cash instead of a single issuer for all cash, so you're partly right.

But the point is, you can have an authenticated on-line transaction, at least at a risk low enough to move all kinds of money around safely.

With all due respect, if this were [yet] true, I submit it would be happening.

Cheers, RAH

-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------