re: Who represents the detained? Nobody...
"In a high-security wing of Manhattan's Metropolitan Correctional Center, an unknown number of men with Middle Eastern names are being held in solitary confinement on the ninth floor, locked in 8- by 10-foot cells with little more than cots, thin blankets and, if they request it, copies of the Koran. Every two hours, guards roust them to conduct a head count. They have no contact with each other or their families and limited access to their lawyers.
5000 people went through a 1000-degree meat grinder on 9/11 without an opportunity for any due process, and don't fucking forget it. The ghost of Due Process hovers above the funeral pyre where her entire sisterhood burned, drifting between the wafting billows of rancid smoke, and I ask myself: What is to be done?
On Monday, October 15, 2001, at 05:38 PM, Anonymous wrote:
"In a high-security wing of Manhattan's Metropolitan Correctional Center, an unknown number of men with Middle Eastern names are being held in solitary confinement on the ninth floor, locked in 8- by 10-foot cells with little more than cots, thin blankets and, if they request it, copies of the Koran. Every two hours, guards roust them to conduct a head count. They have no contact with each other or their families and limited access to their lawyers.
5000 people went through a 1000-degree meat grinder on 9/11 without an opportunity for any due process, and don't fucking forget it.
People who think like "Anonymous" above should ask themselves a simple question: "What would you think if _you_ were seized in a pre-dawn raid, held without charges, never allowed to confront evidence, not allowed to contact the attorney of your choice, cut off from communications with your family and friends, and held in jail for several weeks or more?" I know I'd be out for blood, McVeigh-style. My rough figure of merit is that for every _day_ that I am held unjustly, a member of the forces which held me must die. If this means killing an office building of them for unjustly holding me for 30 days, so be it. (Of course, I'd attempt to be more clever about it. But the morality of it is as I stated.) As for "Anonymous," he's probably just another one of the "Anonymity should be banned" crowd, like the cretins at "Reason," the "Wall Street Journal," and so on. Funny how the most rabid statists often hide behind the very tools they want banned. --Tim May "Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound"
C'punks, Tim May wrote:
My rough figure of merit is that for every _day_ that I am held unjustly, a member of the forces which held me must die.
If this means killing an office building of them for unjustly holding me for 30 days, so be it.
Imaginary conversation at the FBI: Special Agent #1: I don't know, Bob, that latest Tim May posting could be construed as hostile to law enforcement. Special Agent #2: Yeah, you COULD interpret that part about "killing an office building of them" as a death threat, maybe, if you look at it in the worst light. All in all, it was a bit ambiguous. Maybe the best thing to do would be to give Mr. May an opportunity to clarify his remarks. I'd certainly like to find out what he was REALLY trying to say. Special Agent #1: Yeah, just a courtesy call should do it. I'm sure we're just over-reacting. Another Agent has been quietly following the conversation. Special Agent #3: Are you guys nuts? Admittedly that, "for every _day_ that I am held unjustly, a member of the forces which held me must die," is obscure to the point of being positively Youngesque, but that's not all we know about Mr. May. Don't forget the hearsay post by one Cypherpunk which suggested that many years ago, Mr. May could possibly have had on his person a concealed weapon that--if he were to wear it outside--might or might not have been a felony at the time, though the statute of limitations has expired years ago. Given that obvious a threat, we have no choices but to go into Mr. May's compound, guns blazing and kill him. S a n d y "First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
Any message with the word kill in it needs killfiling. Sir, USA, USA.
On Monday, October 15, 2001, at 08:20 PM, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
John Young cryptically wrote:
Any message with the word kill in it needs killfiling.
How about if Tim just says, "euthanize"?
John Young's sudden squeamishness about What Needs to be Done is...typical. He rants about CIA plots, he lists USG atrocities on his Cryptome site (kudos), he talks about the need for justice, but then he pulls back when someone points out the obvious implications of recent events. Kind of like a steak lover realizing belatedly that his food comes from the killing of cattle. --Tim May "You don't expect governments to obey the law because of some higher moral development. You expect them to obey the law because they know that if they don't, those who aren't shot will be hanged." - -Michael Shirley
Tim May wrote:
On Monday, October 15, 2001, at 08:20 PM, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
John Young cryptically wrote:
Any message with the word kill in it needs killfiling.
How about if Tim just says, "euthanize"?
John Young's sudden squeamishness about What Needs to be Done is...typical.
He rants about CIA plots, he lists USG atrocities on his Cryptome site (kudos), he talks about the need for justice, but then he pulls back when someone points out the obvious implications of recent events. Kind of like a steak lover realizing belatedly that his food comes from the killing of cattle.
Without taking sides in your little local dispute over there, surely the better analogy would be an ox realising that his food comes from the killers of cattle? Fat systems programmer decides to refrain from half-a-dozen bad taste jokes about anthrax, cattle & sheep. But points out that the news media might have covered it better if someone had told them that anthrax is endemic in the USA and millions of people may have been exposed to enough to have antibodies. Also decides not to discuss the current literature on viable but non-culturable ("VBNC") bacteria which generally concludes that culture methods often don't give a very good indication of contamination. Googling for Rita Colwell and cholera might be informative. <walks off humming> "How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, now that they've seen NY?"
Yes, I'm squeamish about the word k*lling due to that USA USA thing, the citizen k*lling Act and the official-patriotic k*llings raging overseas and vengeful biowar retribution starting at home. K*lling mobs k*ll for insane reasons. So I'm doing my best not to offend itchy fingers unnecessarily, especially not yours Tim. Trash talk their beliefs, sure, but not at a time when murder is officially sanctioned and payback passion arising. Sir, I say, to those who yearn to k*ll. So?
Anonymous wrote:
5000 people went through a 1000-degree meat grinder on 9/11 without an opportunity for any due process, and don't fucking forget it.
Two wrongs don't make a right - please don't forget that. Betraying the very freedoms we aim to protect is going to do a lot more damage in the long run than the WTC bombings. Due process is for everybody. Marc de Piolenc
participants (6)
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Anonymous -
F. Marc de Piolenc -
John Young -
Ken Brown -
Sandy Sandfort -
Tim May