Re: Degrees of Freedom vs. Hollywood Control Freaks
At 11:29 PM 6/5/2002 -0700, Tim May wrote: On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 08:37 PM, Morlock Elloi wrote:
I only bought one (1) VHS tape, ever (*). That was "Pulp Fiction." So far, I don't have it on DVD.
DVDs are probably the first product ever rolled out exclusively for content control purposes.
Quality-wise, it's somewhat better than VHS and almost the same as Hi-8 (which I use for archiving purposes), and definitely inferior to analog laserdisc, which had a thriving market but is now almost extinct (a nice side-effect being that titles are now available for $5-10 and there are some which will never make it to DVD).
Hype and brandheads that salivate on words like "dolby" "surroundumb sound" aside, average consumer got only new expense with DVDs - buying a player.
Like CDs, audio cassetes and IP protocol, VHS will stay forever with us.
I disagree, politely, with nearly every point you make.
DVDs are taking off faster than I have ever seen a product take off, and I've seen quite a few.
They are vastly better than VHS, in picture quality, and are mechanically superior to VHS in nearly every way. (No broken/stretched tapes, no complicated read heads and capstans to get knocked out of whack, scratched, etc.)
[The following video data snippets are from the excellent hobbyist video site www.vcdhelp.com Many foreign contributors, some with only passable English skills.]] The official (legal) resolutions for optical media are: 720 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by most DVD. 704 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by some DVD 480 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by SVCD 352 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by DVD and China Video Disc (CVD). It is also the "official" SVHS resolution. 352 X 288 (240 NTSC). Used by VCD and DVD. It is also the "official" VHS resolution The official names for those resolutions, come from US and there are defined like this: 720 X 576 (480 NTSC): CCIR-601, Full PAL/NTSC Studio resolution. 704 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 1/1 D1 or simply as D1(Sometimes this resolution is 702 X 576/480). It is the TV Broadcast resolution 528 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 3/4 D1. It is supposed to be the Laser Disc resolution, but ain't. I'll explain later 480 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 2/3 D1. It is the SVCD resolution. 352 X 576 (480 NTSC) as 1/2 D1. Used by DVD and CVD The VCD resolution is 352 X 288 (240 NTSC) and it is called CIF- 601. In Europe and especially Far East Asia, people tend to use other names to describe the legal DVD - Video resolutions. 704 X 576 as D1 352 X 576 as D2 352 X 288 as D4 704 X 288 as D3.
(I also have Hi-8, but would never think of archiving _anything_ to it. Flimsy heads/capstans in spades. Ditto for DV, which I also have. It's resolution is the best of all, but it's convenience and robustness are dubious.)
I started looking at laser disks in 1979, but never bought one. The disks were too large and unwieldy to be a competitive format.
Laserdisc The official Laserdisc resolution is 528 X 576/480, but many titles in US, after 1990, are using the 544 X 480 resolution. That happened because the first "cheap" video projectors in US, were using the VGA standard for video in. Of course, those machines were for professional use with PCs. But with the use of special (and cheap) connectors/adaptors or the "famous" VGA - out connection of specific Laserdiscs, it was possible for the very first time, for US video enthusiast, to have big picture at there houses. It was the only true solution for the first home theatres (the term "home cinema" came later...). Unfortunately, VGA is not based on CCIR-601, so a picture adaption is needed (VGA is 640 X 480). In other words, the picture aspect was wrong and always a part or some parts of the picture was not in use. Because of Laser Disc limitations, the use of pan and scan method (like DVD - Video) wasn't possible. The only solution without compatibility problems and no cost, was to "upgrade" the Laserdisc resolution, unofficially, to 544 X 480. In Europe, the success of Laserdisc was minimal, so the few released PAL titles, continue to use the official resolution for PAL (528 X 576). In theory, there is a 544 X 576, but I never saw a PAL laserdisc using this resolution. The DVB/ -s -t -c resolutions The DVB transmissions became mainstream in Europe in 1996 and today are mainstream in US too. In the last five years, the European Union (E.U.), forced all television and radio providers of E.U. Members, to turn their services digital. So, except Germany and partly France (where the interest for analog satellite TV still is huge), everything today is digital. DVB is based on mpeg 2 (like DVD) and supports resolutions from full CIRR - 601 (top quality) to CIF (lowest quality). Any resolution between those limits can be a DVB picture resolution, with any bitrate/size. The correct output picture aspect is accomplished by the use of the pan and scan method, which takes place between the Digital/Analog conversion, before the final picture signal goes to our TV/Videoprojector. Some DVB examples: - The Holland channels Canal+ Rood and Canal+Blauw (Astra 1G - 19.2 East), are transmitting in full CCIR 601 resolution with VBR bitrate up to 15000kb/s (!). That is BETTER a standard DVD video. - TMF for Belgium and MTV Italy, both on Eutelsat W2 (16 East) are transmitting in full D1 resolution and bitrates up to 7500kb/s - The MTV/VH1 Channels on Astra 1G, are using 544 X 576. - Viva TV on Astra 1G and Onyx TV on Hotbird 3, are using 480 X 576. 352 X 576 is very common at almost all the Italian Free To Air music channels on Hotbird satellite series. An example of very low picture resolution, is the Cnes channel (Hotbird 5, 13 east, Freq: 12558, S.R. 27500, F.E.C. 3/4). This channel transmits 352 X 288 with CBR bitrate up to?. 700kb/s!!!). The known DVB resolutions till today in Europe are: 720 X 576, 704 X 576, 544 X 576, 528 X 576, 480 X 576, 352 X 576 and 352 X 288. Communicate in total privacy. Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2 Looking for a good deal on a domain name? http://www.hush.com/partners/offers.cgi?id=domainpeople
The official (legal) resolutions for optical media are:
720 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by most DVD. ...
Physical number of lines is far from being the only measure of quality. Compression has a huge impact, and so do other digital artifacts. For instance, just take a look at the opening scenes (earth rising on the moon horizon) in Kubrick's 2001 on laserdisc and DVD. In DVD, the dark blue-black background consists of funny rectangles. There are also a lot of motion artefacts which give a certain "feel" do DVD image - but then, that may become fashionable, as valve amplifiers are again now or listening to dolby-recorded tapes without dolby players - some just like that boost in the high end. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
At 12:25 PM 6/6/2002 -0700, Morlock Elloi wrote:
The official (legal) resolutions for optical media are:
720 X 576 (480 NTSC). Used by most DVD. ...
Physical number of lines is far from being the only measure of quality.
Compression has a huge impact, and so do other digital artifacts.
For instance, just take a look at the opening scenes (earth rising on the moon horizon) in Kubrick's 2001 on laserdisc and DVD. In DVD, the dark blue-black background consists of funny rectangles.
There are also a lot of motion artefacts which give a certain "feel" do DVD image - but then, that may become fashionable, as valve amplifiers are again now or listening to dolby-recorded tapes without dolby players - some just like that boost in the high end.
No doubt some transfers from film are better than others. Often these discrepancies are more a function of the budget, skill and care of the technician, the available working print and particular equipment and software used, than the target medium. However, all other things being equal, I agree with Tim: DVD is a superior medium to consumer video tape and Laser disk. steve
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Steve Schear