Re: IP: Wanna make biological weapons and take out cities? $10.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 gep2 wrote:
There's a huge difference between a book that blows the whistle on government misdoings and abuses versus a book that gives a detailed recipe on how some disgruntled lunatic with $10 in their pocket can kill tens of thousands, maybe even millions, of other people "from your basement, in your spare time".
Oh, you mean like the volumes of research on the future of domestic terrorism and information warfare scenarios gamed and developed by analysts at the RAND Corporation, the Institute for Defense Analyses and other government FFRDC think tanks? But since the research was paid for by the DoD and RAND analysts aren't generally in the habit of selling their books to "suspicious types" at gun shows, it's somehow different, right? And if a researcher happens to wants to have a look at the $10 CD for his work or out of intellectual curiosity, you're going to have him stalked down by some cro-magnon donuteater like everyone else, or is he somehow "special status" for being a "good guy" working in a "privileged position"? And do you really think that anyone curious enough to put out ten bucks to learn about what they're up against is automatically going to trot out and do it? You equate possessing a fermentation vat full of anthrax with possessing a book about anthrax? "Ordinary folks read as they're told?" Absolutely bankrupt.
How about posts on the cypherpunks list or other fora that include more scientific or technical information than you feel comfortable with?) Depends on the nature of the information. Ultimately, it will probably require a judge or jury or some such to make the call.
But analysts inventing and debating all sorts of fiendish scenarios on an internal DoD mailing list covering potential terrorist threats and infrastructure vulnerabilities are somehow exempt and have "special status", right. Your entire plan revolves around an arbitrary decision which divides people into categories of who you like and who you don't. "If you don't believe in rights for people you despise, you don't believe in the idea of rights at all."
try to uncover if they're just "curious" as an academically interesting subject, or to see if they have a more sinister purpose.)
You're going to see whatever you want. And therefore, you'll never know.
Meanwhile, it's bastards like this guy selling these terrorism training manuals who are ultimately more part of the problem than they are part of the solution.
Banning information becuase "ordinary folks read as they're told" is a colossal problem, as big as any I can think of. People like you risk being responsible for bringing on the Dark Ages again. But then, it sure sounds like a lot of you are already there. ~Faustine. *** The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms. - --William O. Douglas, Associate Justice, US Supreme Court -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBO/7VXfg5Tuca7bfvEQIzUQCg4yeT17ExJWb8yGpSZfY67UiWW4kAoJUA X407T11qXOjgowtad5/h2Yjk =V8AC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
What's underplayed about Tobiason's CD is his argument that people have a right to know how to protect themselves against biological attack, especially the "accidental" kind. The Connecticut victim of anthrax lived due west of Plum Island, which is located off the coast of Long Island, and is a controversial laboratory which does classified research on animal diseases. Locals have protested for years about its activities. One favorite complaint is that wild animals on the island get infected and then swim across Long Island Sound to Connecticut or across an narrow inlet to the LI mainland. Deers swim the sound; rodents, squirrels and rabbits swim the inlet; and birds fly everywhere up and down the coast and inland. The laboratory's officials claim there is no threat to the public, that their research only involves foot and mouth disease. Nobody believes that for infected deer have turned up in CT and small mammals and birds on Long Island. I've not seen any mention of Plum Island in connection with the anthrax case, and mammals usually are not a source of the inhalation type, but could be transporters of the powder. Still, it would not be surprising that Plum has been doing research with a variety of animal-borne diseases for that is what it was set up to do several decades ago. Critics have questioned why the laboratory has been allowed to continue to operate within the New York Megalopolis. But the same is said of Brookhaven National Laboratory, located not far away. Biolobical scientists who have visited the facility have reported to scientific colloquia at the American Museum of Natural History inManhattan that weird and scary stuff happens on Plum Island -- disease, germs, insects, pests within pests within peculiar parasitical containers waterborne, airborne and human-borne. Even military visitors reportedly come away shaken.
On Friday, November 23, 2001, at 06:46 PM, John Young wrote:
I've not seen any mention of Plum Island in connection with the anthrax case, and mammals usually are not a source of the inhalation type, but could be transporters of the powder.
Still, it would not be surprising that Plum has been doing research with a variety of animal-borne diseases for that is what it was set up to do several decades ago.
One of my favorite novelists is Neslon DeMille ("Word of Honor," "The Gold Coast," etc.). His novel "Plum Island" is set on and around that site, and gives valuable background.
Critics have questioned why the laboratory has been allowed to continue to operate within the New York Megalopolis. But the same is said of Brookhaven National Laboratory, located not far away.
Only scientific illiterates would worry about Brookhaven. ("I saw Meryl Streep on "Oprah" and she was talking about how they smash atoms out there at that Brookhaven place. I mean, like what if some of those pieces of atoms flew out and hit people?")
--Tim May "Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound"
The US Department of Agriculture Plum Island Animal Disease Center says: http://www.ars.usda.gov/plum/ "The Plum Island Animal Disease Center is a Biosafety Level 3 (BSL-3) facility designed and constructed to work with the most dangerous animal diseases in the world, such as foot-and-mouth disease (FMD), Rinderpest, and African swine fever. In fact, by federal law, Plum Island is the only place in the U.S. where FMD and Rinderpest viruses can be studied. As a BSL-3 facility, PIADC already has in place state-of-the-art biosafety practices and procedures to prevent a disease organism from escaping into the environment, including stringent and rigorously observed safety measures within the laboratories themselves." ... still, "Plum Island, N.Y., Sept. 5, 2000 The U.S. Department of Agricultures Plum Island Animal Disease Center (PIADC) has created a forum groupfor public affairs and safety and emergency preparedness, to provide new conduits for communication with the centers neighbors. The forum includes eight local officials who represent communities in New York and Connecticut within commuting distance of Plum Island. The forum will initially meet once a month with USDA scientists and other staff as part of an ongoing dialogue on the centers research activities, responsibilities, and general operations." ... so, did a forum member track the virus home to CT? Probably not: "Visitors: * Must sign a personal recognizance statement undertaking to abide by the Safety Rules. * Must take a shower and follow personal decontamination procedures when exiting biocontainment Building 101. * Who have been in biocontainment must observe a self-imposed quarantine, meaning they cannot be around livestock, zoos or circuses for 5 days after coming out of biocontainment. (This does not include dogs and cats.) " ... but, "In October 1991, all operation and maintenance activities were privatized, transferring to a contractor (under USDA supervision) all personnel involved in these activities. Currently the operations and maintenance of the PIADC are conducted through a contract with LB&B Associates, Inc., headquartered in Columbia, Md. LB&B is a minority, woman-owned business."
The New York anthrax death occurred about 30 miles west of Plum Island, in The Bronx, which is located at the western end of Long Island Sound. The Oxford, CT death is about 10 miles northwest of Plum Island, near the Long Island Sound coast. No other federal laboratory dealing with hazardous virii is as close to these death locations as PIADC. Virii are regularly shipped into and out of the Center; the Center boasts of how carefully the dangerous transport is monitored. Photos at the Center's Web site show an African-American deliveryman carrying bio-hazard packages. Most of the other personnel in the Center's photos are pinkish, but that could be a coincidence. Wonder where that deliveryman lives, Harlem, The Bronx? In a shack among millionaires in the Hamptons? Does he have grievances? Would he be an admirer of Malcolm X? Who is LB&B, operator of Plum Island? All the gov personnel were assigned to the firm when the operation was privatized. The firm is doing $B business with federal agencies from DoD to NASA to gov contractors all around the nation. Must have lots of high-tech immigrants working for justice and fair play. And maybe some former gov employees not altogether happy with the new bosses financial affairs. Couldn't find a Web site for LB&B on Google, but dozens of citations for work with others as "small business" partners. Wonder if the firm does work for the Postal Service?
The operator of Plum Island Animal Disease Center, LB&B Associates, is a facilities manager firm which has contracts with the USG for numerous operations around the nation. In addition to the Plumb Island facility, it operates an unidentified federal facility in Trenton, NJ, the reported origin of several of the anthrax letters. It holds government contracts for "hot" facilities for viral research, claiming extensive experience with up to Level 3 facilities and is under consideration as operator of Plum Island's upgrade to Level 4 for research on human-animal viruses. A Plum Island job ad says "many employees live in Connecticut and take the ferry from New London to Orient Point, NY" from which a Center boat goes to the island. The most recent anthrax death occurred a few miles from New London, CT. The firm as had several labor relations problems such as employee suits and unionization squabbles. It is fiercely anti-union according to one report. Another report claims it has continuing labor problems which has led to being downgraded in government bids. The firm also produces virtual military training programs in urban warfare and aircraft operation. It received a lot of press coverage for adopting and adapting Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Rogue Spear game engine for military training programs. The firm also operates military helicopter facilities and services the aircraft. LB&B stands for Lily Brandon and Brandon, the founder and a relative.
participants (3)
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Faustine -
John Young -
Tim May