On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 15:17, Thomas Shaddack wrote:

Pentagon protects their people by distance - being it by bombing from high altitude, or by using cruise missiles.

Everybody uses the technology available to them. What's bad on it?

Invariably, the side that uses the defensive measure - being it smart weapons[1] or human shields - classifies it as tactical, while the other side considers it cowardly.

A nice example of symmetry in asymmetry.

[1] The defensive aspect here is to allow the attackers to attack from distance beyond the reach of the other side's active defenses, thus not risking anything more than a piece of overpriced electronics.

If some asshole is coming at you with a knife, it's cowardly to shoot him before he's in range? Dumbass.

-- James A. Donald:

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Sadre protected himself with Iraqi women and young children as human shields, showing that he expected the Pentagon to show more concern for Iraqi lives than he did.

Thomas Shaddack

Pentagon protects their people by distance - being it by bombing from high altitude, or by using cruise missiles.

Everybody uses the technology available to them. What's bad on it?

Invariably, the side that uses the defensive measure - being it smart weapons[1] or human shields - classifies it as tactical, while the other side considers it cowardly.

But no one would ever use human shields as a protection against Sadr. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG baNQWrpILKDhhFIBGXuMuSPmLUwgDjnVj7KGTDrs 4cKV4IqQITCwrJCTQCt5kQpfh5eiP+IX2EqGFdRA8

James Donald recently wrote

Thomas Shaddack wrote:

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It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a ground to blacklist *you*.

I know when it will happen. It will happen when people interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions. :-)

More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being accused of funding terrorist activities. At 11:38 AM 10/18/2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:

Never underestimate the power of the combination of the People With Agendas with Classified Computerized Profiling Algorithms. :)

Unfortunately, the primary algorithm seems to work like this: - Somebody puts a name on some list because it seems like a good idea at the time, and there's no due process required. - Everybody copies lists from everybody else, with minimal attempt to track where the information comes from. - Database corruption propagates rapidly, so anybody who's on any list because of political corruption like Neo-Cointelpro stays there because of database corruption.

You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I believe that he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have ever encountered. It is quite apparent from reading his responses that he is obviously an exceptionally intelligent (academically anyway) individual. I find it hard to believe that such intelligence could reside in a person with such critically flawed core beliefs. I have a hunch that Mr. Donald is instead playing the role of an elaborate "devil's advocate", furiously defending his stance against retaliations by our fellow Cypherpunks. Tyler Durden mentioned this hypothesis many emails ago, and I believe him to be accurate, especially since Mr. Donald never responded to the charge. None-the-less, this has been one of the more inteteresting (and infuriating) threads in recent memory of Cypherpunks. I'm glad we're going through it with such vigor. -Adam On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:39:05 -0700, "James A. Donald" said:

-- Thomas Shaddack:

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It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a ground to blacklist *you*.

James A. Donald:

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I know when it will happen. It will happen when people interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions. :-)

Bill Stewart

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More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being accused of funding terrorist activities.

When e-currency handlers (cambists) are accused of money laundering terrorist's money, the feds steal the money, but they do not obstruct them from travelling, or, surprisingly, even from doing business - well, perhaps not so surprisingly, for if they stopped them from doing business there would be nothing to steal.

When the state uses repressive measures against those that seek to murder us, there is still a large gap between that and using repressive measures against everyone.

We are not terrorists, we don't look like terrorists, we don't sound like terrorists. Indeed, the more visible real terrorists are, the less even Tim McViegh looks like a terrorist and the more he looks like a patriot.

When people are under attack they are going to lash out, to kill and destroy. Lashing out an external enemy, real or imaginary, is a healthy substitute for lashing out at internal enemies. We do not have a choice of peace, merely a choice between war against external or internal enemies. Clearly, war against external enemies is less dangerous to freedom.

War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of peace. The question is where the war is to be fought - in America, or elsewhere. War within America will surely destroy freedom.

What we need to fear is those that talk about the home front and internal security, those who claim that Christians are as big a threat as Muslims - or that black Muslims are as big a threat as Middle Eastern Muslims.

--digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG cGrCJvmIhJnYLWO2RB3qmnqijcHlOOsA7iklRoZD 4Ar75eLN10XbfJw/mqPpGQeUW0SzMlz4CLrpHIeEe

On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 11:37:02PM -0400, Adam wrote:

None-the-less, this has been one of the more inteteresting (and infuriating) threads in recent memory of Cypherpunks. I'm glad we're going through it with such vigor.

That thread bores me to tears. I miss technical content. Or, at least, a few pointers of where the action is. I'm tinkering with Nehemiah's RNG (/dev/hw_random is next to useless without a patch), and about to start using PadLock patches, once C5P hardware arrives. I'm also going to look into OpenBSD, once 3.6 is up on mirrors. What is happening in TCP/IP level traffic remixing? P2P apps? Can someone in the know provide a boilerplate, or at least a list of raw URLs? -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

-- On 23 Oct 2004 at 23:37, Adam wrote:

You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I believe that he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have ever encountered.

Why don't you pick one particular factual claim, for example that Bin Laden was a CIA agent, and defend it, instead of confidently asserting all this wild baloney, and deffending past baloney with an endless stream of new baloney, pronounced with equal confidence? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG xOlAusokL6372cJOfxYIKssrD7fRmaOORj2kjput 4y6M4TN/NDS5VmHOHQML2KCnZmUaNTCeosglcxYJE