At 08:12 AM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
"Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat." --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions.
First, many cats (e.g., mountain lions) do not form social groups beyond the mother raising the cubs. Female African lions reportedly do hang out together. Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless ("anarchic") assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass. --- "While acknowledging himself an Anarchist, he does not state to what branch of the organization he belongs" ---Discussing Leon Czolgosz' shooting of President William McKinley
Well, cats *do* have a quite strict hierarchy which is far from ad-hoc establishment of the pecking order. So the analogy dosn't hold with cat behavioral experts. However, if cats could perform anonymized hissing, biting and scratching, then I'm sure that cypherpunk maillist would be a good analogy for cat behavior.
Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless ("anarchic") assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat. When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance, (linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass.
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On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:40:57PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
At 08:12 AM 9/9/03 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
"Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat." --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
Cats always have an alpha cat. And they often have pissing contests to determine the pecking order. This is just as true of house cats as it is of lions.
First, many cats (e.g., mountain lions) do not form social groups beyond
the mother raising the cubs. Female African lions reportedly do hang out together.
Second, if you examine the context of the original post, the statement was a metaphor about leaderless ("anarchic") assemblies such as this list. In particular, the Feds (dogs) haven't historically understood that this list is the equivalent of a grad lounge or spontaneous beach party: there are multiple conversations, no one is moderating or otherwise choreographing squat.
Yes, I'm well aware of what it's trying to say, but it's really a very poor analogy based on a faulty premise.
When cats encounter each other by chance, they may assert dominance,
Not "may" -- they always do, just as dogs do. And not just in first meetings, it continues virtually forever, including sometimes all-out fighting, but sometimes too subtle for most humans to even be aware of.
(linguistic pissing contests are not unheard of here :-) but their lives are not structured around following, or smelling the higher-up's ass.
We have three or four distinct groups of cats living here that we feed. Two in the house, two in the garage/greenhouse who once lived in the house but could not resolve the dominance issue between one male in the house and one alpha female now in the greenhouse. Then there are the more or less permanent two females that live on and under the front porch, who also have serious unresolved issues with the Mama Fritz of the greenhouse (who does get outside during the day). Dominance also goes down the line, watching the 3 young offspring of one of the porch ladies makes that pretty clear, one of those bosses the other two, but all are subservient to the two older females, and their mother, Shy, clearly bosses Bobbette, the other older female. Neither of them take crap from Mama Fritzi, in fact one day I watched Bobbette whup Mama's butt, but that hasn't deterred Mama one iota. And then we have the feral toms who come to the permanent bin feeder on the porch as well, who have their own inter-relationships. If you read any texts on cat behavior, you'll find dominance a well studied attribute. Most say there is *always* an alpha cat, even if it isn't apparent to the casual observer. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
participants (3)
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Harmon Seaver -
Major Variola (ret) -
Morlock Elloi