Thus spake James A. Donald (jamesd@echeque.com) [15/10/04 15:19]: : Has anyone who does not look a terrorist done a suicide mission : outside Israel or Russia? Recall the shoe bomber. You just : had to look at him. You would think the airport screeners would : need to be half brain dead to let him on the plane. Come to : think of it, they are half brain dead, but laws that require : them to pretend to be stupider than they actually are do not : help. I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist training camp." For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking like some crazed religious fanatic. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to bomb anything. And I sure hope that I'm not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I *look*, alone.

At 3:55 PM -0700 10/15/04, John Young wrote:

Most of the Boston Red Sox team look as if they have just come from a terrorist training camp for blind, handless barbers, decked-out in ill-fitting sports gear, staring wild-eyed at RPGs being fired at their heads and nuts, swinging clubs futilely at the inerrant missiles, their ass-wipe paws swollen into giant shit-covered patties, muttering homicidal jihads against devil-bred yankees.

Yeah, but just wait until next year... ;-) Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist training camp." For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking like some crazed religious fanatic. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to bomb anything. And I sure hope that I'm not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I *look*, alone. No, of course not. even if you had a turban, carried a koran and your briefcase made a suspicious ticking noise, that would be *profiling* and

Damian Gerow wrote: therefore bad. Now, if your name happened to sound like someone who doesn't look like you, but a FBI agent had once misheard in passing... that would get you detained.

Thus spake James A. Donald (jamesd@echeque.com) [16/10/04 14:33]: : > I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount : > to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist : > training camp." : : Nonetheless you can probably start fiddling with your shoes on : a plane without the passengers seated near you jumping you. Perhaps, I don't know. But we're not talking about the other passengers, we're talking about screening based on looks, no? : > For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking : > like some crazed religious fanatic. But that doesn't mean : > that I'm going to bomb anything. And I sure hope that I'm : > not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I : > *look*, alone. : : If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have : to drive, or use public transport. So by that rationale, every Arab should have to drive or use public transport? Oh, and every white American (recall numerous references to Mr. McVeigh), too. Shit, by that rationale, the only people allowed left to fly will be cats and dogs. Just not pit bulls.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

...

...

If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have to drive, or use public transport.

Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii? Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?

...

So by that rationale, every Arab should have to drive?

Every young male Arab past puberty, with a few exceptions for special cases.

This is a measure good for pissing off (which is often the first step to radicalizing) the quite secularized majority of American Arabs. You also seem to forget there is another potential factor - not only the visible one (ethnicity), but also one that isn't obvious to visual evaluation - religion. There is a significant black minority that inclines to Islam, some of them potentially radical. Do you want to suggest banning blacks from flying too? If so, what reaction are you expecting to get?

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

-- James A. Donald:

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...

...

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If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have to drive, or use public transport.

Thomas Shaddack

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Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii?

Hard biscuit

Do I interpret this statement correctly as the endorsement of ethnicity-based travel restrictions? Didn't domething like this been here already, in the form of Jim Crow laws, and later found unconstitutional?

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Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?

They do.

I am afraid either I don't understand you correctly, or you are contradicting yourself. The "...or use public transport" from your earlier statement seems to mean that you said something along the lines "if they can't fly, they should use public transportation, which includes airplanes".

...

This is a measure good for pissing off (which is often the first step to radicalizing) the quite secularized majority of American Arabs.

The proposition that we need to walk delicately for fear of disturbing the tender sensibilities of arabs seems laughable.

Being told I can't use some quite common resource, in this case an important means of transportation, because of so irrelevant factor as ethnicity, isn't exactly delicate. What would you do if you'd be in the receiving end of such policy? Add more such restrictions and some percolating time - would you just bow and obey? How long it would take to get you pissed and eventually revolting?

Are the arabs walking delicately to avoid offending our sensibilities?

Vast majority of them yes. But you don't perceive them because they don't offend you and don't make the news.

...

You also seem to forget there is another potential factor - not only the visible one (ethnicity), but also one that isn't obvious to visual evaluation - religion. There is a significant black minority that inclines to Islam, some of them potentially radical. Do you want to suggest banning blacks from flying too?

Seen any black suicide bombers?

Not yet. But maybe I just didn't look deep enough through the mass-medial fog of the terrorism "war".

Black Muslim radicalism tends to express itself by mugging Jews and stealing television sets. Strapping dynamite to one's chest just does not seem to be a black thing.

With the proper leadership, everything is possible. Don't forget the WW2 kamikaze pilots, who weren't quite Arabs.

There is still of course the matter of the unexploded bombs in that building that were dug out, and that the ATF received a "Don't come in to work" page on their beepers, and the seize and classification of all surveilance video tapes from things like ATM's across the street. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. /|\ \|/ :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\ <--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/ /|\ : \|/ + v + : War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 16 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

Mc Veigh did not target innocents, and if he did target a plane full of innocents, perhaps in order to kill one guilty man on board, there is no way in hell he himself would be on that plane.

RTFGoogle? Google revealed: http://www.jubilee-newspaper.com/atf_last_operation.htm http://www.constitution.org/okc/jdt03-01.htm http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/qa/23076.html http://www.lpsf.org/LPSF_Newsletters/nl_10_01.html http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:vrlZD0TAzU8J:www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ac7e1b57dbf.htm+ATF+paged+not+to+come+in+to+work+murrah&hl=en http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/proof-of-coverup.html http://www.uwsa.com/pipermail/uwsa/2001q2/006627.html and so on. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. /|\ \|/ :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\ <--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/ /|\ : \|/ + v + : War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Justin wrote:

On 2004-10-16T22:12:52-0400, Sunder wrote:

...

There is still of course the matter of the unexploded bombs in that building that were dug out, and that the ATF received a "Don't come in to work" page on their beepers, and the seize and classification of all surveilance video tapes from things like ATM's across the street.

Sources?

-- The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth, and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails. -- L. Ron Hubbard

Thus spake James A. Donald (jamesd@echeque.com) [15/10/04 15:19]:

...

[laws making stupidity mandatory for gov't officials]

I've had more than one comment about my ID photos

--- Damian Gerow wrote: that amount to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist training camp." For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking like some crazed religious fanatic. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to bomb anything. And I sure hope that I'm not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I *look*, alone. Way back when phrenology was all the rage they did not have terrorists. Since it is evidently vital to the security of the state for its officials to have the capability of committing arbitrary civil rights violations, I can see a need for the resurrection of phrenology, suitably updated, as a screening tool. The shape of your head; the cadence of your gait; the way your eyes shift according to carefully structured stimulae, and of course your spending patterns -- all these things will help the cause of profiling. Remember: petty inconveniences that make travel on average less pleasant and more onerous are not at all intended to facilitate tightened centralised control of civilian life. That it may actually do so is an unintended side-effect. As for me, I have resigned myself to the current lamentable state of world affairs. Until the world's policeman finishes flushing the terrorists out into the open for the purpose of apprehension, we will all have to make sacrifices for the greater good. Regards, Steve ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca